Reasonable buff to war

[Izsha]

Tanks went through a pretty massive overhaul for the xpac, and they obviously had other jobs to work on that didn't get done in time. "Screw those other jobs and work on tanks!" is basically how some of these comments come off.

If all anyone can come up with is little nitpicks here and there then they've done a fairly decent job IMO. Everyone wants a little more seasoning, a little extra sauce, but the dish is perfectly edible as prepared. Chill.

This.

Tanks are in their most balanced state defensively, offensively, and support skills than at any time in the history of the game WHILE adding a 4th tank. That is already quite a feat. By most accounts pld and gun are fun, well designed classes. Drk, (as is expected with overhauls) has mixed reviews as old guard doesnt like change but many newer drks seem to be enjoying it. Wars in a similar boat, but both are still functional. We could see some tweaks here and there, sure but theres no crisis.

Compare some of the most repeated complaints. Nascent flash is clunky. War doesnt synergize with party buffs well. Drk 5x bloodspiller spam is lame copypasta. Tanks are a little to 'ez'. Tank damage contribution with other roles is low (separate from balance within the role which is great).

Compare those to previous expantions. Drk is trash and useless(SB). Pld is trash and useless (HW). War is OP as Fidge(HW/SB). War is utter trash and cant even tank raids (2.0). Pld has obscene unfair levels of utility with good dps, and personal mitigation (SB).

The tanks are in a relatively amazing position with only minor gripes compared to the dramatic balance issues of the past where 1 tank was always dramatically op and 1 was flat out worse at most things or everything. Most of the complaints today are about 'clunky' this and 'clunky' that. Those are subjective preferences. The core of the tank role is really REALLY solid accross all tanks. Im quitting cuz se hates tanks! And all this rage because X tank didnt get someminiscule tweak sound really childish when you look at the big picture. Try some perspective people.

[BarretOblivion]

This.

Tanks are in their most balanced state defensively, offensively, and support skills than at any time in the history of the game WHILE adding a 4th tank. That is already quite a feat. By most accounts pld and gun are fun, well designed classes. Drk, (as is expected with overhauls) has mixed reviews as old guard doesnt like change but many newer drks seem to be enjoying it. Wars in a similar boat, but both are still functional. We could see some tweaks here and there, sure but theres no crisis.

Compare some of the most repeated complaints. Nascent flash is clunky. War doesnt synergize with party buffs well. Drk 5x bloodspiller spam is lame copypasta. Tanks are a little to 'ez'. Tank damage contribution with other roles is low (separate from balance within the role which is great).

Compare those to previous expantions. Drk is trash and useless(SB). Pld is trash and useless (HW). War is OP as Fidge(HW/SB). War is utter trash and cant even tank raids (2.0). Pld has obscene unfair levels of utility with good dps, and personal mitigation (SB).

The tanks are in a relatively amazing position with only minor gripes compared to the dramatic balance issues of the past where 1 tank was always dramatically op and 1 was flat out worse at most things or everything. Most of the complaints today are about 'clunky' this and 'clunky' that. Those are subjective preferences. The core of the tank role is really REALLY solid accross all tanks. Im quitting cuz se hates tanks! And all this rage because X tank didnt get someminiscule tweak sound really childish when you look at the big picture. Try some perspective people.

"Minor complaints" maybe you should go look at the tank damage forum. There is a giant complaint of how tanks got gutted with their importance and dumbed down between expansions for no reason. Healers got his treatment but did SE fix them? For the most part yes, relatively quickly, so why didn't tanks at least get mentioned they will look into???

WAR is not in a good spot, no one is saying that who looks at basic data. WAR is the least played tank by a country mile while all the others are relatively close in play percentage. DRK have valid complaints, but WAR has massive problems too stemming from the whole rework they did to WAR in SB (Which was a bad idea). WAR is supposed to be the sustain tank, but that means nothing when every fight you need to tank swap resulting in long periods of time where you are not using your strengths while other tanks bring better party or damage than you. Then WAR complete kit got screw balled this expansion by being gutted and then left with a shell of a job with just IR and fell cleave spam which results in one of the worst feeling tanks to play in the game. Balance means nothing if you aren't having fun, and the community is basically saying "we are not having fun with WAR".

[Brightamethyst]

There is a giant complaint of how tanks got gutted with their importance and dumbed down between expansions for no reason. Healers got his treatment but did SE fix them? For the most part yes, relatively quickly, so why didn't tanks at least get mentioned they will look into???

I find it hilarious that you think healers got fixed.

[Kabooa]

I find it hilarious that you think healers got fixed.

The relative "Importance" part is what gets me.

When it gets put into terms like that, the desired outcome requires that -someone else- be brought down to bring themselves up.

[BarretOblivion]

I find it hilarious that you think healers got fixed.

I am not an expert on healing nor do I heal. I simply see that SE has been actually making patches for healers. Is astro still crap? Yeah, nocturnal sucks and healers of how you DPS is off, but you numbers are more than what they would have been if they didn't touch your scaling from SB. At least they are working on you guys.
Tanks? What the heck have we gotten?
Jack, and sh**, besides some dungeon buffs. Wooow. Lets not mention tanks damage and complexity got shafted and this tier they regressed in tank resonsibliities in raiding.

[Izsha]

"Minor complaints" maybe you should go look at the tank damage forum. There is a giant complaint of how tanks got gutted with their importance and dumbed down between expansions for no reason. Healers got his treatment but did SE fix them? For the most part yes, relatively quickly, so why didn't tanks at least get mentioned they will look into???

WAR is not in a good spot, no one is saying that who looks at basic data. WAR is the least played tank by a country mile while all the others are relatively close in play percentage. DRK have valid complaints, but WAR has massive problems too stemming from the whole rework they did to WAR in SB (Which was a bad idea). WAR is supposed to be the sustain tank, but that means nothing when every fight you need to tank swap resulting in long periods of time where you are not using your strengths while other tanks bring better party or damage than you. Then WAR complete kit got screw balled this expansion by being gutted and then left with a shell of a job with just IR and fell cleave spam which results in one of the worst feeling tanks to play in the game. Balance means nothing if you aren't having fun, and the community is basically saying "we are not having fun with WAR".

Again, as I said, the only complaints are largely subjective stuff about fun and 'clunk'. You speak as if there is a consensus mandate from the people on these issues. There isnt. Objectively (as you pointed out and I have said) tanks are balanced. 'Wars not fun' is an opinion that is not shared by everyone so why would SE hop too on a mixed bag of opinions? Really? If drk has taught us anything its that you cant make everyone happy by reworking a job. There are people that will not he happy until its HW drk again. Others who liked SB Drk and some that like ShB drk now and people that hated each version as well.

So who's 'fun's should SE fix drk for? Who's 'fun' should they overhaul warrior for? Yours? I'm sure you would like that. I really like drk right now and wish they reverted war to 4.0 war with separate zerk or windows. But there are people that love war today and hate drk today. But apparently SE is supposed to jump on drk/war overhauls because SOME people dont like it. Sorry, that's not a realistic expectation. If people are going to start riots when there are very few and small objective problems, then that's uncalled for. If people start riots because of differences of subjective opinion demanding SE cater to group A over group B, that's also unfair. In either case, these strong reactions are overblown.


Edit: and before someone brings up playrates again for the umpteenth time, I've posted on that a half dozen times. I'll just dig that up and paste it later.

[NyneSwordz]

People saying fun or clunky is subjective. Maybe in some cases it is. But is nascent flash having a party target requirement fun? Is anyone even making that argument? Is it not clunky to have almost have to have a macro to use an action? They got rid of the party target requirement for dragoons eye. Why not implement that here for nascent flash?

Is conal aoe with overpower fun? Maybe it was when you only had to position the enemies and blast them with overpower a couple of times to grab hate. Thats fine. Cool even. But when its part of a rotation that you have to spam constantly and the number of enemies makes it impossible to always be hitting everything, why not just make it a 360 aoe at that point?

Maybe these issues are "nitpicky" but they add up and affect enjoyment of the job. And its fine if a job being viable in raids is good enough for you. If its not for others then just leave them to it. And if fun is subjective, then who are you be saying those who no longer want to play a job because they find it unfun childish?

[millktea]

.

That is incorrect. The tank damage forum is massive, and i've already dealt with you previously, Izsha, you don't have a strong understanding of warrior (or did you finally realize how bad storms eye and it having adjustments would actually make a difference?), so it makes sense that "fun/clunk" is your only rebuttal. There IS a consensus, actually. It's all in that forum and on reddit.. 4.2 war had a massive pool of lamentations and yet this IR still made it into ShB. warrior is the LEAST played tank. It plummeted from alphascape into eden. So, yeah, they KNOW who to make it for. the japanese players are just as unhappy about warrior's condition and having no identity.

if you want your answer on whom the jobs should be made for, it isn't the casual community. the bad players are going to keep playing poorly as they simply do not care to perform correctly, this is the actual issue here. and yeah, i brought up playrates. deal with it being brought up again. it matters.

I mean... holmgang is really nice in Levi with a DRK. You never share/split any tankbusters with that comp.
Holmgang isn't bad once it gets the buff, but... the duration change makes it almost as useful to me as Living Dead outside of requiring an exceptional amount of healing. Heal a WAR enough for them to survive while thier self heal helps a bit is nice. But, making all damage 0 adds another layer that healers love. PLD? Don't even consider them apart of the fight for 10 secs which is great for catching up or just free damage. Superboilde? Throw a regen on them and dps/catch up like PLD while the GNB is likely to put thier own regen on themselves.

With DRK/WAR there is a bit of a 'emergency' because you have to have them at a safe HP number as the duration runs out (and the required healing for DRK to not die) all the while any heals you throw at them during the invuln can be nulled out by auto atacks or tankbusters like stonecrusher. Complete invuln of damage alows safe heals or ignoring heals in PLD's case.

exactly this.

the issue isnt so much that it was difficult to heal for the first hit for SC, it was that healers DONT want to heal, even if it only requires ogcd heal like tetra first (and scholar doesnt want to give up EDs). holmgang will also not be fixed until that other bind is removed, as that animation is problematic as well as needing to untarget the enemy. no one cares about the bind.

[Nedkel]

Tanks went through a pretty massive overhaul for the xpac, and they obviously had other jobs to work on that didn't get done in time. "Screw those other jobs and work on tanks!" is basically how some of these comments come off.

If all anyone can come up with is little nitpicks here and there then they've done a fairly decent job IMO. Everyone wants a little more seasoning, a little extra sauce, but the dish is perfectly edible as prepared. Chill.

I wouldnt call 15-17% drop in overall performance for warrior a "nitpicking".

Warrior got nerfed in relative values to other jobs, he is second last DPS job at the moment, is this nitpicking?

[whiskeybravo]

I wouldnt call 15-17% drop in overall performance for warrior a "nitpicking".

Warrior got nerfed in relative values to other jobs, he is second last DPS job at the moment, is this nitpicking?

Couldn't say. My performance is as good as it's ever been. I don't worry about comparing myself to anyone other than my tank partner, and he can barely keep up. Lucky me I suppose.