Reasonable buff to war

[Hierro]

Ngl, I find it kinda fascinating how many people started complaining about IR in SHB and how simplistic WAR got, while back when these things happened in 4.2, most people were cheering about WAR "feeling so good to play now" and no longer being "clunky".

I'm sure it has nothing to do with SHB WAR no longer enjoying a dps advantage over rest of the tanks...

This is what has me so bothered. The irrationality of it all. WAR retained most of what people said it was good for back in SB, but all of a sudden "Oh no! We're dead last in DPS by some negible margin! WAR is too boring, too gimped, pls buff yoshi!"

I was repeatedly accused of being biased whenever I said "DRK's fine" during SB because I mained WAR. No, I'm being straight up honest here too:

WAR's fine.

[Izsha]

This is what has me so bothered. The irrationality of it all. WAR retained most of what people said it was good for back in SB, but all of a sudden "Oh no! We're dead last in DPS by some negible margin! WAR is too boring, too gimped, pls buff yoshi!"

I was repeatedly accused of being biased whenever I said "DRK's fine" during SB because I mained WAR. No, I'm being straight up honest here too:

WAR's fine.

Because not everyone was cheering the changes back then. There were tons of threads with people on both sides hashing it out forever and theres still a lot of posts to this day that want the old zerk ir system back. But people like to horribly over generalize so now its this black and white, zero nuance meme of a narrative that you soelled out.

War used to have more to play around. War used their stances far more often. The fact that the 99 percentile speed runners didnt doesnt mean most raiders didnt. War had crit from gauge that gave people 1 more thing to optimize around. This had trickle down effects into how you use onslaught and made optimal rotations very fight specific and a puzzle to figure out that changed from fight to fight and what buffs your raid had. There was synergy between skills. Tob, defiance, unchained, upheaval made for some interesting combinations working to line them up to gain the offensive and defensive effects at the same time.

They are all small things, but thats what nuanced gameplay is. Small tweaks. Tiny adjustments. None of them were dramatic stuff that made your parse gor from grey to gold, but they all were subtle things to manage and try to optimize. So, yes, when you remove all the nuance from a job, people say it feels bland and thats not the double standard you are trying to make it out to be.. When you make sweeping hyperbolic claims like 'everyone loved IR change and now they hate it' of course it sounds like a nice zinger, but just like the current version of warrior, it lacks nuance and depth and ends up psounding pretty hollow.

[Hierro]

They are all small things, but thats what nuanced gameplay is. Small tweaks. Tiny adjustments. None of them were dramatic stuff that made your parse gor from grey to gold, but they all were subtle things to manage and try to optimize. So, yes, when you remove all the nuance from a job, people say it feels bland and thats not the double standard you are trying to make it out to be.. When you make sweeping hyperbolic claims like 'everyone loved IR change and now they hate it' of course it sounds like a nice zinger, but just like the current version of warrior, it lacks nuance and depth and ends up psounding pretty hollow.

What you seem to describe, these tiny differences, mirror splitting hairs more than they do optimization. I'm absolutely confident that's not what most people are concerned with when they complain about WAR. I can tell you already, if WAR was number 1 in dps charts, most theses complaints threads would magically disappear into thin air, leaving only the overly-concerned with too much idle time on their hands.

[Izsha]

What you seem to describe, these tiny differences, mirror splitting hairs more than they do optimization. I'm absolutely confident that's not what most people are concerned with when they complain about WAR. I can tell you already, if WAR was number 1 in dps charts, most theses complaints threads would magically disappear into thin air, leaving only the overly-concerned with too much idle time on their hands.

You can be 'absolutely confodent thats not what people are concerned about' all you want. I am people and thats exactly what im concerned about, and i have seen many posts over the years from people that agree with me. Not everyone does, but you seem committed to this broad stroke generalization about wars and what they want, so be as confident as you like. It doesnt make it true.

[ForteNightshade]

What you seem to describe, these tiny differences, mirror splitting hairs more than they do optimization. I'm absolutely confident that's not what most people are concerned with when they complain about WAR. I can tell you already, if WAR was number 1 in dps charts, most theses complaints threads would magically disappear into thin air, leaving only the overly-concerned with too much idle time on their hands.

That isn't a fair assessment though. People were more tolerate of Warrior's issues in Stormblood because it had something to compensate; high damage. It no longer has that compensation, and is undeniably the weakest tank in virtually every metric. It stands to reason people are going to be upset. Furthermore, you're seeing more complaints now due to the added clunkiness of Shadowbringers. Inner Chaos doesn't interact well, Eye became more of an annoyance and Nascent Flash has no reason to share a CD with Raw or lack a self target aspect. Add that to the little things Izsha mentioned and it all starts to add up.

I wager if they gave Warrior more oGCDs, fixed some of the clunkiness or even doubled down on it being an HP recovery machine, you'd hear far less complaints even if it remained the weakest tank in terms of damage.

[shao32]

well holmgang duration is going to be buffed, meaby WARs are going to make a diference again.

[FirstnameLastname]

well holmgang duration is going to be buffed, meaby WARs are going to make a diference again.

Holm will still be the weakest of all tank "invulns".

[Satarn]

Holm will still be the weakest of all tank "invulns".

Erm, how in the hell? I doubt that the buff is going to be a literal 1 second and anything over that makes it as long or longer than Superbolide, with WAY lower cd and not requiring to be healed to full like LD does.

[BarretOblivion]

This is what has me so bothered. The irrationality of it all. WAR retained most of what people said it was good for back in SB, but all of a sudden "Oh no! We're dead last in DPS by some negible margin! WAR is too boring, too gimped, pls buff yoshi!"

I was repeatedly accused of being biased whenever I said "DRK's fine" during SB because I mained WAR. No, I'm being straight up honest here too:

WAR's fine.

WAR wasn’t fine in SB but there was just enough complexity in their stance dancing to keep them middle interesting. They lost that and gained nothing in ShB that’s the issue.

[Hierro]

WAR wasn’t fine in SB but there was just enough complexity in their stance dancing to keep them middle interesting. They lost that and gained nothing in ShB that’s the issue.

Complexity? Stance dancing? Did we play the same game? No one really stance danced outside of prog, and even then it was as simple as just waiting until you IB'd for any mechanic. The most complex thing was figuring out which opener to use to get another IR before a certain phase change.