Reasonable buff to war

[EpicOverlord85]

Hardest tank to play??? Hardly you manage nothing except wait for you inner realese window and manage your rotation. You manage more with DRK then WAR. Naw nothing WAR has constitute a a buff especially with critical hit upscaling as the expansion continues. Although there is an argument that all the tanks will benefit for critical hit!

And sadly we don’t really manage anything anymore as a DRK either >_<

[LegolasT]

And sadly we don’t really manage anything anymore as a DRK either >_<

I been a DRK main for a long time since HW and I like this version more then Stormblood but I do understand the complaints about it losing alot of it's skills to other tanks so yeah I agree DRK lost alot over the years. Heck in my static I changed to PLD because living dead just got annoying to deal with. We will see what 6.0 brings cause from how I see it tanks arnt getting any major changes this expansion.

[Izsha]

Yeah i was going to respond to the war sepulture stuff but you guys covered pretty much erything. Megalith targets MT every time.1st stone crusher is lulzy when the raid starts with massive shielding before the fight. Etc. Seems the other people here do pretty much the same thing i do with minor variations. War does a great job in sepulture.

[EpicOverlord85]

I been a DRK main for a long time since HW and I like this version more then Stormblood but I do understand the complaints about it losing alot of it's skills to other tanks so yeah I agree DRK lost alot over the years. Heck in my static I changed to PLD because living dead just got annoying to deal with. We will see what 6.0 brings cause from how I see it tanks arnt getting any major changes this expansion.

HW in my opinion was really the peak for this job. It had some issues that needed to be ironed out sure, but at least it felt unique and had an interesting playstyle.

[BarretOblivion]

I am not saying you shouldn't use WAR, if you enjoy it that's on you. However, in an optimization sense, what does WAR bring to the table that would make a group pick it over an of the other choices? Holmgang? This isn't Leviathan. Its just an akward choice now. Its the same as DRK back in SB, which is where WAR has fallen to in ShB. The least played tank by a large margin where people struggle to find upsides to it over the other options.

[Capn_Goggles]

I am not saying you shouldn't use WAR, if you enjoy it that's on you. However, in an optimization sense, what does WAR bring to the table that would make a group pick it over an of the other choices? Holmgang? This isn't Leviathan. Its just an akward choice now. Its the same as DRK back in SB, which is where WAR has fallen to in ShB. The least played tank by a large margin where people struggle to find upsides to it over the other options.

Honestly, that's just being dramatic. I think the biggest issue is that because the tanks are so close together in terms of power, it really just boils down to "what's the most fun to play", and I think a lot of people just find that WAR is not very fun. As far as effectiveness goes, Warrior definitely has the most robust personal cooldown suite of all of the tanks. Raw Intuition is one stop behind TBN for strongest tank cooldown in the game, with the added bonus of being more widely applicable since there is no gamble as to whether it will burst or not, Vengeance is the same as every other major tank cooldown but with the added bonus of increasing damage output, the new Thrill of Battle is criminally underrated since it now boosts ALL healing actions instead of healing magic alone like the old ToB+Conv was geared toward, WAR still has Equilibrium which is just as good as Aurora but heals in one single burst. Then there's Holmgang, which while it hasn't had an opportunity to really shine this tier, still holds a lot of potential down the line (and it doesn't anchor you in place anymore).

There's a definite reason to bring WAR, and I will continue to stand by the fact that you shouldn't determine somethings' viability by speedkill meta, especially when the objectively weakest tank in that regard (WAR) is only 2.3% behind the objectively strongest tank in that regard (GNB). Now, I'm not going to argue that there aren't some issues to iron out, but as far as viability goes the tanks have literally never been so close, and this is despite the fact that they just tossed another tank into the mix and overhauled another one.

[whiskeybravo]

I am not saying you shouldn't use WAR, if you enjoy it that's on you. However, in an optimization sense, what does WAR bring to the table that would make a group pick it over an of the other choices? Holmgang? This isn't Leviathan. Its just an akward choice now. Its the same as DRK back in SB, which is where WAR has fallen to in ShB. The least played tank by a large margin where people struggle to find upsides to it over the other options.

If you are in a situation that allows forming a group of the "best" jobs in each role in order to have the most "optimal" composition, then perhaps you wouldn't. Never mind the fact that nearly everyone complained that WAR had worn the crown for too long, it's a bit hypocritical to take the stance you seem to have taken.

The fact remains, however, anyone that did choose WAR as their job best to learn how to take advantage of what it can still do, instead of listening to those who'd rather write-off some supposedly inferior aspect of what it brings to a raid group now.

[Satarn]

Its the same as DRK back in SB, which is where WAR has fallen to in ShB. The least played tank by a large margin where people struggle to find upsides to it over the other options.

It's not like SB DRK at all tough. SB DRK(pre 4.3) had severe issues with personal mitigation and snap aggro(back then it still kinda mattered), lowest dps of all tanks and no raid mitigation, which also meant no LB cheesing with AoE shields which was part of the meta in SB. Taking DRK was legitimately detrimental to the raid, unlike current WAR which has best(costless) self and co-tank healing, best personal mitigation and a very useful raid shield. The differences between tanks right now are minimal and while there's still better and worse picks, it hardly matters. There's no way to achieve perfect balance without making every job play the same and we're right now about as close as possible(and we've suffered some homogenization to achieve that already).

People aren't "struggling to find upsides" - there's several strenghts to WAR which me and other people have pointed out. You simply choose to ignore anything we say that doesn't fit your idea that WAR is shit because "it's not meta" or whatever. In case of e4s alone, you kept giving answers as if you didn't read other people's arguments at all, constantly repeating things that have already been debunked.

There's more reasons for a job to be underplayed than just it's power. MCH has been consistently the least played job in SB despite being meta at certain point, while WHM and SAM have seen a lot of use despite being some of the worst jobs in the expansion.

[BarretOblivion]

Raw Intiuition is only about 3% better than a PLD sheltron while a PLD doesn't have to give up their own personal mitigation to help another tank, in fact it thrives in this by being able to share its own cooldown. Lets look at all tanks strengths:
PLD: Best OT by a wide margin still. Intervention is extremely strong and is even stronger when you have split tankbusters like 3/4 of the fights (you could add leviathan but that's only 1 tankbuster so I'll ignore it.) Divine veil is better for the party in a shield sense because the calculation of the shield is baised off of the PLD's max HP unlike shake it off where its baised of the person who has the effect (meaning DPS/Healers get a weaker shield than the tanks). Passage of arms for more party mitigation. Finally PLD has a strong ranged capability unlike all the other tanks making it idea for fights where there are periods where you lose uptime on the boss.
GNB: on demand OT skill that's pretty good and doesn't need any job interaction but mitigates more than WAR, has a regen that can be applied to other party members. Highest damage and has a party wide mitigation that is stronger when multiple raid wide aoe's are used (ala Titan tummults/3rd phase).
DRK: Best tank for magical fights with Dark Mind. Invuln is tied with PLD when it comes to duration but can last longer if needed (downside is the dying without healing part). Again has a pary wide mitigation the same as GNB being exceptional when multiple raid wide AoEs are going out. TBN is a strong OT skill.
Now what does WAR bring to the table? It has Holmgang... which is only 1 minute shorter than LD now and only one of the fights seem to support Holmgang directly really well (Leviathan) but it also has the shortest duration of all the tank invulns. Shake it off is kinda tied with Divine veil but the tie is only because the WAR gets the sheild too, at the cost of a weaker shield for the group. Then there is the self healing which is... good for auto attacks? But its OT skill is still the weakest out of all the tanks only giving 10% and a heal that is halved to your target making the healing pathetic if you are using it for them and not yourself. WAR is designed 100% to be a MT lets all agree with this. Problem is that besides E2S and E3S ( both tanks are getting hit) there are points in each fight where that "self-sustain" means jack. If this was SB where WAR could hold a boss the entire time like E2S then WAR would be a strong MT choice, but it isn't. You need to tank swap and OTing is WARs blantant weakness. I would rather have a more versitle tank that can do both MT and OTing somewhat well. I want to see WAR get buffs to its utility. You want to thrive on self healing? Cool, remove the 50% reduction on the other target for start and split Flash and Raw so when you use one the other doesn't go on cooldown. Buff up Shake it off a bit more if you invest into it for a better shield. Maybe increase the duration of Holmgang to 7.

[whiskeybravo]

I would rather have a more versitle tank that can do both MT and OTing somewhat well. I want to see WAR get buffs to its utility. You want to thrive on self healing? Cool, remove the 50% reduction on the other target for start and split Flash and Raw so when you use one the other doesn't go on cooldown. Buff up Shake it off a bit more if you invest into it for a better shield. Maybe increase the duration of Holmgang to 7.

You do realize that Nascent is capable of 25k+ heal on target per IC? My max IC is nearly 65k in damage (minimum around 48k).. That's a huge amount of healing on both targets for a measly 25 sec CD. The problem is the difficulty in using it effectively, but to separate it's CD from Raw would make it even more powerful as a solo mitigation skill.

The best solution would actually be to knock GNB's damage down a peg, since it offers such "great" utility. But that's unlikely to happen anytime soon since it's this expansions shiny new toy.