HOW SQUARE ENIX TRULY TREATED ABYSMALLY

[Nixxe]

Or perhaps you were treating Square Enix abysmally. From what I gather from your post, they did not receive your payment. They had every right to take action.

SE's policy is pretty draconian. Other companies, such as Blizzard, just close the account until it's resolved.

[DominusMaiku]

"YOU ACQUIRE NO OWNERSHIP OR PROPERTY RIGHTS IN ANY CHARACTER OR OTHER IN-GAME VIRTUAL GOOD, AND ARE ONLY LICENSED TO USE SUCH CHARACTERS AND ASSETS ASSOCIATED WITH YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THE AGREEMENTS. YOU AGREE THAT YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT AND ANY VIRTUAL GOODS AND CHARACTERS DO NOT HAVE ANY MONETARY VALUE. SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU." - https://support.na.square-enix.com/r...2&tag=users_en

Sorry for all caps, thats not my doing - its a quote from the ToS you agreed to when you installed the game. While I'm wishing you all the best in resolving the issue (your bank might be a good place to start), I figured it might not be to bad to remember this bolded, all-caps part at the very beginning of the ToS before talking about what they legally can or cant do.
Suspending your account at any time for any or no reason given to you is well within their rights and you agreed to that. Your anger and frustration are still understandable but you should keep this in mind before you make matters worse.



Yeah, except they dont - as stated in the ToS you agreed to. This isnt real life rent and you dont own anything in game - you actually agreed that they dont have to give you notice or reason at all.

While I understand their policy - there is a reason law suits and class actions suits happen (which is my specialty and field) - sometimes people think that because a large company puts in their property rights "ITS OUR GAME AND WE DO WANT WE WANT AND YOU AGREE WITH THAT" does not necessarily give them that right, actually. Hence, why there are so many different sorts of laws from company/state/federal...etc. Those laws are there to protect people from becoming victims of "Ownership".

[galbsadi]

While I understand their policy - there is a reason law suits and class actions suits happen (which is my specialty and field) - sometimes people think that because a large company puts in their property rights "ITS OUR GAME AND WE DO WANT WE WANT AND YOU AGREE WITH THAT" does not necessarily give them that right, actually. Hence, why there are so many different sorts of laws from company/state/federal...etc. Those laws are there to protect people from becoming victims of "Ownership".

So, um....good luck with that. However, if this is really true, and you're not just some overzealous kid on the Internet, you would know that you might want to keep discussion of this away from their forums where you'd be effectively allowing them to prepare for any said actions ahead of time.

Further, full stop: if you're gonna take legal action...do so, don't threaten it. Threatening it won't benefit you in any way, especially, again, on the official forums that they own.

[DominusMaiku]

So, um....good luck with that. However, if this is really true, and you're not just some overzealous kid on the Internet, you would know that you might want to keep discussion of this away from their forums where you'd be effectively allowing them to prepare for any said actions ahead of time.

Further, full stop: if you're gonna take legal action...do so, don't threaten it. Threatening it won't benefit you in any way, especially, again, on the official forums that they own.

1) I do not intend on taking legal actions bud, while I am angry, I cannot blame SE for their customer service rep. - Like any forum, I just came in here to voice frustration over the incident that occurred and hopefully it's heard by higher up in the company so THEY can avoid future issues.
2) While movies lead you to believe that you should not say something that could hurt you - it's not how it works. If you sue someone, it's done by putting all the facts (like the ones I've stated in this forum) of the incident for which the Plaintiff plans to sue. The Defendant, in this case SE, would still have time to prepare responses to the complaint and affirmative defenses.
3) Alas, I know you're just helping and I really do appreciate your looking out and I promise I was just perplexed by the customer service overall - because everything else was actually quickly handled. But a notice really wouldn't hurt their relationships with their fellow customers and would actually reduce their calls/chats because it would be addressed before it escalates on most cases.

[DominusMaiku]

"YOU ACQUIRE NO OWNERSHIP OR PROPERTY RIGHTS IN ANY CHARACTER OR OTHER IN-GAME VIRTUAL GOOD, AND ARE ONLY LICENSED TO USE SUCH CHARACTERS AND ASSETS ASSOCIATED WITH YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THE AGREEMENTS. YOU AGREE THAT YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT AND ANY VIRTUAL GOODS AND CHARACTERS DO NOT HAVE ANY MONETARY VALUE. SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU." - https://support.na.square-enix.com/r...2&tag=users_en

Sorry for all caps, thats not my doing - its a quote from the ToS you agreed to when you installed the game. While I'm wishing you all the best in resolving the issue (your bank might be a good place to start), I figured it might not be to bad to remember this bolded, all-caps part at the very beginning of the ToS before talking about what they legally can or cant do.
Suspending your account at any time for any or no reason given to you is well within their rights and you agreed to that. Your anger and frustration are still understandable but you should keep this in mind before you make matters worse.



Yeah, except they dont - as stated in the ToS you agreed to. This isnt real life rent and you dont own anything in game - you actually agreed that they dont have to give you notice or reason at all.

Actually that's incorrect, again.
1) this IS real life as this is real money and a real problem.
2) Because they have in the agreement "We don't have to notice you" does not make it federal law - which when they become a company they sign in all their little agreements they have to abide regardless of their own in-company policies. An owner of a property can add in an agreement "We do not need to give notice" and a judge would laugh at because it doesn't necessarily follow federal/state law.

[GenBroadaxe]

1) I do not intend on taking legal actions bud, while I am angry, I cannot blame SE for their customer service rep. - Like any forum, I just came in here to voice frustration over the incident that occurred and hopefully it's heard by higher up in the company so THEY can avoid future issues.
2) While movies lead you to believe that you should not say something that could hurt you - it's not how it works. If you sue someone, it's done by putting all the facts (like the ones I've stated in this forum) of the incident for which the Plaintiff plans to sue. The Defendant, in this case SE, would still have time to prepare responses to the complaint and affirmative defenses.
3) Alas, I know you're just helping and I really do appreciate your looking out and I promise I was just perplexed by the customer service overall - because everything else was actually quickly handled. But a notice really wouldn't hurt their relationships with their fellow customers and would actually reduce their calls/chats because it would be addressed before it escalates on most cases.

This big issue here may have been you asking for legal information to a front line support rep. In our offices if a customer states' I'm am taking steps to take legal action against you' then our agents will tell them that they can have their lawyer contact ours in writing, but we won't (and honestly can't) transfer to our Legal Department. Depending on the situation we would be bound to not provide any additional support unless it's cleared by the legal team first. If there's ever any situation with any sort of account payment, but best first step would be to get the information from your bank and see about contacting an accounting department who can get holds or freezes removed.

Companies are able to refuse service if they have reason to do so. If there's a miscommunication or an issue between a customer's bank and our company we can get it sorted, but companies can absolutely (and legally) cut someone off from accounts if they have justification. I say this as someone who's seen our legal council do it before.

[HumanNinjaToo]

I feel for you OP. Sometimes we get upset and want something done about whatever the problem is, and we get hooked up to some butt-head customer service rep that acts like everything is all your fault. I've had issues like this in the past come up. Once, I was contacted by a law firm about a hospital debt my ex-wife accrued while we were separated but still married. They ended up garnishing my wages because a sheriff deputy signed a legal document that he delivered a court papers to me, in person, over a decade ago. Turns out the deputy delivered them to my ex's boyfriend at the time... Anyways, when I tried contacting the law firm to work this out on my own, they treated me like garbage, called my a liar, and basically did all they could to piss me off.

So I contacted an attorney of my own, got the issue of garnishment dropped, and countersued for my wages to be returned. Even though it cost me more money in the long-run to get my garnished wages back, it was worth going to court and seeing them look stupid.

Anyways, I feel your frustration and I'm glad you got everything worked out.

[MrKusakabe]

Oh I was extremely nice - at first. I worked in a call center and understand that the person answering has no control over any current situation. However, after asking to be transferred multiple times and he refusing - that got me heated because now my field is actually legal and I knew what he was doing/saying was all serious business. And listen, I am not a hateful/whining person but if im upset (regardless of right or wrong) just allow me to vent and do your job of following the appropriate procedures, ya know? Other than that, I've NEVER had a problem with SE and actually love all the great gaming they add to my busy life. But I am refuse to back down when someone goes out of their way to purposely deny me my rights - hence, the post.

What makes you think they have to put you trough to a different department? I'd hung up on you if you come up with that. As you work in a callcenter - as you claim - you should know that you are a buffer there. Because literally everyone want to be talking to "the higher ups" instead of the "lower callcenter agents", right? Your job would be obsolete if you have the chief programmer, attorneys, chief community manager, chief game masters etc. directly on the phones.


As "law" is your field - as you claim - you should know that a phone call is useless except you record it - illegally - and try to use it as evidence. There is a thing called, uh... what was it? It is made of wood fibres...which can suck up ink...ah, paper! A letter. And/or use your local court system of whatever kind.


But you are there to cause mad beef to a fellow customer callcenter agent and that does not sound like you are experienced in that field at all.


Sincerely,

[Saefinn]

snip

Having worked complaints for years this feels so familiar.

So your payment was disputed? Your account is your responsibility. If somebody disputes their payment through their bank then it is perfectly reasonable for a business to end your service, because you violated your agreement.
If it's not you but somebody else. Your dispute is with that person.
If it's your bank, then your dispute is with your bank and not SE. SE might have acted in accordance with the ToC's & policies.

Chances are your customer service guy realised this. They probably also realised there's nothing they can do or anybody else within SE can do. And customer service agents are expected to be able to tell customers "no" and may often have to handle complaints themselves and the answer to those complaints can simply be "no". Just because you don't accept "no" for an answer, doesn't mean your complaint wasn't dealt with.
But in some environments agents can get in trouble for needless escalations.

They can also get in trouble for giving out legal details, it's not the job of a legal team to handle customer service disputes. If you're litigious, I don't know the law of your country, but there's every possibility they can refuse to give those details out. In the 5 years I worked in customer services, I never knew the details for the legal team because we didn't need to have that information and if we did, agents would get tempted to give it out. If people were genuine, they'd contact a legal representative and legal representatives know the right channels & approach to go through to raise a legal claim.
If you're representing yourself, then I guess, you'd be expected to know how to do that too.

Which would bring me to another point, 95% of customers who threaten legal action or start quoting law or regulations and so on, don't actually know the law, they just think they do. The business they're quoting could have a really good relationship with the law and be found they're clean as a whilstle. But there's a lot of misinformation on people's consumer rights and disatisfying a customer or providing a bad service is not an illegal offence.

And finally your approach, how you've told your story and much of the information also feels familiar, where the customer presents the agent in a bad light, that they were mistreated or hard done by and then I come to listen to the call and find the customer is far from innocent and the agent has found themselves in a bad call and taken more than a customer service agent should, because it's a low paying job and they're not paid to take people's baggage. Of course not saying that 100% that is the case here, but I feel worth mentioning for any onlookers reading this thread, in most cases like this, there's another side to the story and most of the time the customer is not representing the other side well.

I accept it's possible the service was bad, I won't deny that.

[Barraind]

Why would your account be deleted from a payment dispute?

I think a number of MMO developers will ban you permanently if a bank/credit company initiates a chargeback. Some only do it temporarily until resolution of the chargeback, but many wont even bother to look into the why.

You used to be able to fix it by using another payment method, but these days, theres a lot of assumption its fraudulent card use and not worry you're going to do it again.

My credit union once processed a chargeback on several companies at a point I changed jobs and they had a direct deposit request pending, because "they couldnt confirm it wasnt a phishing attempt", but refused to chargeback my ff11 account after they charged my card for 3 months after I cancelled my subscription. Banks / CU's / ect are weird.