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  1. #1
    Player
    Hawklaser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    373
    Character
    Kyterra Lianleaf
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by RyuDragnier View Post
    Due to the mentality of this playerbase that DPS is more important than anything, that would never work. Look at all the healers who are complaining because DPS is now boring, at the DPS with utility who are complaining because they feel they don't do enough damage. Such an idea cannot work just due to player mentality.
    Lets see... the vast majority of incoming damage is scripted, making it quite easy to plan out the heals, leaving a lot of down time to use 1 dot, and then either one instant cast or one hard cast dps spell.

    Lets try taking all the dps classes damage abilities and simplify them into 5 buttons. 1 aoe, 2 for single target, 1 class specific, and one buff or dot ability. How long do you think it would be for all the DPS players to be up in arms about things being boring?

    Its not that DPS is everything, its knowing that the longer a fight drags on, the more mistakes add up, and eventually lead to failure. You have heard of wars of attrition right? Over time resources do run out, be it something visible like healer mp, or something invisible like a players ability to focus.
    (6)

  2. #2
    Player
    Stanelis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    929
    Character
    Irvy Ryath
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 85
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawklaser View Post
    Lets see... the vast majority of incoming damage is scripted, making it quite easy to plan out the heals, leaving a lot of down time to use 1 dot, and then either one instant cast or one hard cast dps spell.

    Lets try taking all the dps classes damage abilities and simplify them into 5 buttons. 1 aoe, 2 for single target, 1 class specific, and one buff or dot ability. How long do you think it would be for all the DPS players to be up in arms about things being boring?

    Its not that DPS is everything, its knowing that the longer a fight drags on, the more mistakes add up, and eventually lead to failure. You have heard of wars of attrition right? Over time resources do run out, be it something visible like healer mp, or something invisible like a players ability to focus.
    DPS is mostly "everything" with the way encounters have been designed since heavensward. Basically all bosses are DPS checks with positional mechanics players need to handle to their best abilities while maintaining uptime. But this wasn't always the case. Back in ARR the game was more balanced. Some encounters were a challenge to tank due to tanking mechanics (eg T5 with the snakes to aggro asap before they killed someone), healing mechanics (titan hard used to hit very hard at the beginning) or DPS making use of their utility (DPS having to kite adds during T7). But it was deemed too complicated so now we re trapped with fights that have simplistic mechanics in their concept (Everything is about avoiding AOE, soaking and looking in a particular direction) but have tight DPS requirements (and now with a lot of raid AoEs), with almost no adds on encounters and where the only difference between a good and a bad tank is the amount of DPS dealt. Honestly this is very sad.

    Look at eden savage, it is all about positionals, raid AOEs so healers don't fall asleep and DPS checks. Now just go run all of the coil of bahamut with min ilvl requirement (if you didn't complete it back in they day) and come honestly tell me the design wasn't different back then.
    (1)
    Last edited by Stanelis; 08-16-2019 at 07:48 PM.

  3. #3
    Player RyuDragnier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    New Gridania
    Posts
    5,465
    Character
    Hayk Farsight
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanelis View Post
    DPS is mostly "everything" with the way encounters have been designed since heavensward. Basically all bosses are DPS checks with positional mechanics players need to handle to their best abilities while maintaining uptime. But this wasn't always the case. Back in ARR the game was more balanced. Some encounters were a challenge to tank due to tanking mechanics (eg T5 with the snakes to aggro asap before they killed someone), healing mechanics (titan hard used to hit very hard at the beginning) or DPS making use of their utility (DPS having to kite adds during T7). But it was deemed too complicated so now we re trapped with fights that have simplistic mechanics in their concept (Everything is about avoiding AOE, soaking and looking in a particular direction) but have tight DPS requirements (and now with a lot of raid AoEs), with almost no adds on encounters and where the only difference between a good and a bad tank is the amount of DPS dealt. Honestly this is very sad.

    Look at eden savage, it is all about positionals, raid AOEs so healers don't fall asleep and DPS checks. Now just go run all of the coil of bahamut with min ilvl requirement (if you didn't complete it back in they day) and come honestly tell me the design wasn't different back then.
    This is also why I say that I don't trust the playerbase. I ran a lot of this back when it was hard, and enjoyed how much work we had to put into things to get clears (I personally was on the CC duty). But too many people complained it was too hard to DPS while doing this stuff (along with many things from ARR) and so we got these dumbed down raids. People say the encounters are the ones encouraging this mindset for DPS is everything, but the playerbase was the cause of it to begin with for refusing to adapt and get better to where they could do these things. Anybody who believes otherwise should look at that old thread asking for nerfs to Royal Menagerie, which mechanically was about as difficult as an Alexander Creator 8-man normal raid.
    (1)