So, can we just ban damage meters already.

[Forever_Learning]

Im largely against parses due to the mentality they create. Tanks and healers judged on their DPS as opposed to how they play their main roles, while people complain dancer is a bad job because parsers dont show the impact that non-damage actions can contribute.

When I originally posted this, I wasn't referring to how tanks and healers play in this game.

I'm referring to how it impacts people's perception of those roles.

At it's most extreme, some people would argue that there are NO separate roles, everyone is a DPS, and some roles have extra functions like defensive CDs or heals.

I agree that it's important for tanks to mitigate and DPS, and for healers to heal and DPS, but I am concerned that there's a growing mentality that only the DPS they did matter.

Meaning, some people ignore if the heals were good or if the mitagation was good and judge a tank or healer strictly on the DPS they produced.

For example, I agree that a healer's DPS is often related to the party they are with. Now, imagine a scenario where the group is eating mechanics, so the healer has to heal to keep everyone alive, and afterwards, they complain to the healer about the low DPS produced. I'm concerned that this attitude is fostered and reinforced via parsers.

For example, there was a youtube video where all of the jobs were ranked via a tier list, and it became clear that it was entirely based on their DPS parse.

The video has 50% down votes, and the authors themselves even pinned the following comment (of a larger comment):

>Umm, gonna be blunt this is a very badly done video.

>1. Power (to me) does not equal DPS/HPS. To me power suggests an overall power level, this includes damage, support, debuffs and buffs. Since this is a purely numbers list and does not account for any >support or utility you should have titled the video "DPS/HPS Ranking" instead.

Often there are people who only consider DPS when considering the value of a job, and I think that parsers contribute to that mentality.

Another example occurred this week in the Monday with Mr. Happy video.

Someone asked a question about balance, in particular, asking dancer vs. monk, dragoon, and black mage. Basically, talking about how far behind Dancer was in terms of DPS.

I agree with Mr. Happy's response:

Most of the time when people have discussions about FFlogs, I find it to be very narrow minded . . . there are a lot of positive that come out of logs . . . but the way the information is used is unconstrued . . . taking things at face value, comparing jobs between roles, without actually digging a little bit deeper . . . it's kinda unfortunate that FFlogs has become that and there's this culture behind it that doesn't really understand how the tool is meant to be used, but it's kinda used as a D measuring content, you know, it's super disappointing to me cause it's a tool that could be so much more useful, but it's just used for kinda the worst things to be honest, you know.

[Barraind]

There's a reason why min ilevel exists if not they why even bother having something so arbitrary?

Minimum ilvl exists because those are ilvls where you're expected to not be dead weight.

The first boss of each raid tier is generally set at 10 ilvl below crafted/normal raid gear at the same tier, and the last fight in each tier is set at that tier's normal raid/crafted ilvl.

If you're in a coordinated group, who isnt going to have the +1 ilvl/piece from current tier limited tomestones before entering savage the first time, you're NEVER going to have minimum Ilvl across every player, because you'll already be 5-10 ilvl higher than the minimum before you zone in t the first two, and you'll have picked up ~5-6 or ~9-10 ilvl from the drops you get in early floors for the later floors.

If you ARENT in a coordinated group, you're still not going into those fights at minimum ilvl, and will most likely be doing them with notably higher ilvl the first time you clear them.

[Barraind]

Why don't you "lock" the Ex/Sav content behind a tutorial at the very least?

I 'd be perfectly fine with a stone/sky/sea trial that required pulling at least a significant % of the necessary damage in order to flag the player as savage/ex'able

[Sebazy]

I 'd be perfectly fine with a stone/sky/sea trial that required pulling at least a significant % of the necessary damage in order to flag the player as savage/ex'able

Until some form of movement, dodging or disconnects get added to SSS, it'll forever be irrelevant to real content though. I can program a button on my keyboard to beat SSS for me.

[NekoNova]

Until some form of movement, dodging or disconnects get added to SSS, it'll forever be irrelevant to real content though. I can program a button on my keyboard to beat SSS for me.

Not to mention that SSS conditions are stricter than the actual raid is.
You need way more DPS to actually kill the SSS dummy than you need for clearing the raid.

[LalaRu]

I 'd be perfectly fine with a stone/sky/sea

Requiring to pass its SSS before unlocking the actual duty, will be something interesting to look forward at.

[Liam_Harper]

Requiring to pass its SSS before unlocking the actual duty, will be something interesting to look forward at.

They'd never do it. It'd be WoW with Proving Ground Silver all over again, some players would actually never beat it and would quit over it. Rather than improve or admit to any fault, we'd have walls of threads about how overtuned it is. Even now people claim SSS is overtuned, while I'm 40 sec or so left on the timer for EX and consider myself a fairly average player with a lot to improve on in actual fights. Or those players who rant about groups with ilv requirements over the minimum when the game is raining 450 on you and they can't be bother to put minimal effort into a character before joining an endgame content group.

It's a sad fact that MMO's are intentionally designed that the good players carry the bad ones who can't be bothered, so they happily keep paying a sub.

[wdeschain]

Even now people claim SSS is overtuned,

It is job dependent, but SSS is and has been overtuned. Google "are ffxiv SSS dummies overtuned," and it will return plenty of posts--some with SE admittance(source citations peppered about even).

[Makeda]

It is job dependent, but SSS is and has been overtuned. Google "are ffxiv SSS dummies overtuned," and it will return plenty of posts--some with SE admittance(source citations peppered about even).

This is because, for the DPS dummies at least, SE doesn’t factor healer DPS into boss clearing but the community does.
- The community actually expects less from the DPS than SE does, with the community expecting healers and tanks to cover the gap.
I think SE does factor tank DPS in, but before ShB factored it in without accounting for stance dancing... So while they now gave in to community expectations for tanks, sort of, they have hardened down on healers with a stronger intent towards “pure healing” leading their DPS dummies to be more demanding as they’re expecting 2 of the 8 people to be doing 0 DPS...

[Liam_Harper]

As long as savage content is tuned for the expert, not casual, people, I find it appropriate to have a test, like SSS, mandatory for the unlock. Yes I agree someone doesn't understand what savage is, and will whine in forum because their casual play doesn't let them pass.

Ah, you're talking Savage. Fully agree with that. In fact it might even serve as a barrier to keep the unprepared player from wandering in there without realizing.

It is job dependent, but SSS is and has been overtuned. Google "are ffxiv SSS dummies overtuned," and it will return plenty of posts--some with SE admittance(source citations peppered about even).

This is exactly what I mean. The dummies are perfectly fine, yet rather than admit to any faults even when presented with clear proof like other players beating these dummies, players will claim "overtuned" and refuse to learn to improve.

It varies a little, but SSS is tuned very well this expansion. I'd bet half the players claiming it's overtuned have no idea what weaving or clipping is, miss positionals, don't bother to meld, undervalue the important of DoTs or min-max abilities and so on, yet are convinced "my rotation is perfect!" and turn to excuses like "see someone else said it's too hard!".
EX is minimum 430 ilv, but that assumes you're raid prepared, melded, food, perfect rotation. It's endgame and SSS will test the same. If you can't be bothered to do that, it gets easier with gear. At 445+ you can blast through SSS with 20-30+ sec left on the clock. I have on every class I play and I'm fairly mid-average.

Honestly if you can't beat SSS it's all on you and you have no business in that content.