I DON'T like Stormblood RDM

[wereotter]

tbh i agree it shouldnt be Removed, Just nerfed.

Imho, a CD of 30secs on Verraise with 2 Stacks Would hold its Utility to a good level, (in a Raid u generally are only Weighed on for rezzs once Healers are dead, and u could still Double Rezz them and u can still get out a Instant rezz on a Target during a Group)

i disagree with it being a great spell tho, today in Casual content i've Never used Verraise, no one dies to warrant it lol, it falls out of use even in more casual Settings.

30 second cooldown with two charges means it would serve zero difference between what it is now and what it would be. I prefer the idea that red mages and summoners simply have all their potencies buffed, but they get a weakness debuff whenever they raise someone else (and brink of death debuff if we raise again while weakness is still active). Punish our damage when we have to raise, but allow us to do more damage once a fight is learned and that utility skill is no longer needed.

[Kabooa]

800 to 900 overall was pretty tight between them in SB, i'd rather that than the 1600 gap we have now.

Back then that was about a 13% difference.

If you look at RDPS differentials now, it's a 15% difference.

If you look at ADPS it's 21%, though this number differs from between 15-20% depending on the fight.

Wanting to close the gap to Stormblood levels without taking into account Shadowbringers inflation would reduce the actual RDPS value to around 5-6%, at which point, you might as well kick Black mage to the curb again, because that's about the difference there was in Delta.

[Wayfinder3]

Im referring to Alphascape where RDM, SMN, and BLM all preformed well with each other or at least As well as they've ever been. I certainly am not referring to delta, where SMN kicked both RDM and BLM to the curb for the entirety of that tier, UCOB, and Sigma after patch 4.1

[ChaoticCrimson]

I prefer the idea that red mages and summoners simply have all their potencies buffed, but they get a weakness debuff whenever they raise someone else (and brink of death debuff if we raise again while weakness is still active). Punish our damage when we have to raise, but allow us to do more damage once a fight is learned and that utility skill is no longer needed.

To be frank, that sounds silly. People dying in a fight for any duration is already a significant loss in group DPS. Why then punish SMN/RDM players further for surviving and covering for a rez, particularly when the mistake wasn't theirs? That seems backwards to me. Also, rezzing as a DPS caster for any reason at all is already a risk in personal DPS as it is, between taking the time to cast the rez and the relatively steep MP cost.

[Kabooa]

Im referring to Alphascape where RDM, SMN, and BLM all preformed well with each other or at least As well as they've ever been. I certainly am not referring to delta, where SMN kicked both RDM and BLM to the curb for the entirety of that tier, UCOB, and Sigma after patch 4.1

Did you miss the part where I said that wanting to close the gap to what you suggested is what reduces it back to Deltascape levels?

[wereotter]

To be frank, that sounds silly. People dying in a fight for any duration is already a significant loss in group DPS. Why then punish SMN/RDM players further for surviving and covering for a rez, particularly when the mistake wasn't theirs? That seems backwards to me. Also, rezzing as a DPS caster for any reason at all is already a risk in personal DPS as it is, between taking the time to cast the rez and the relatively steep MP cost.

I mean, sure.... I would prefer for Square not to punish caster DPS for simply having raise. But we all know that's not how this is going to go down. So at least if the job only gets a damage penalty when they actually have to use that action seems a fair traide off with what Square is realistically going to do with the skill. We already know that they said that summoner and red mage should be really far behind black mage because raise.

So if that's the mindset they're in, then if you never have to raise someone in a fight, then you should be doing more damage, and losing one GCD and the mana isn't really a big enough impact on having the caster DPS raise as opposed to the healer.

This might not be the best compromise solution to what Square has stated and what the player base wants.... but it's the best one I could come up with.

[Wayfinder3]

Did you miss the part where I said that wanting to close the gap to what you suggested is what reduces it back to Deltascape levels?

Deltascape BLM on 99th percentile average of all fights sat at 5374.08, RDM was 4950.33 so the dps gap between them around was about 424 not accounting for verraise. I agree that this is low and i'd never claim it needs to be this way.
Alphascape BLM on 99th percentile average of all fights sat at 8427.71, RDM was 7538.61 so the dps gap between them was around 889 again, not accounting for verraise but is double the deltascape difference and the jobs coexisted well under these restrictions.

So placing RDM at least 800-900 lower total rpds contribution than BLM won't harm the Job at all. BLM was a heavy meta contender then and it will be if this is how the jobs are placed relative to each other again, as opposed to the nearly doubled 1600 overall difference there is now at the 99th percentile in Eden's Gate Savage

BLM 14,091.50 RDPS to RDMs 12,447.80 with a gap of 1643.7 Rdps that Verraise supposedly fills
BLM 14,463.40 ADPS to RDMs 12,129.20 with a gap of 2334.2 in BLMs favor that again, Verraise seems to fill

[IchiExorz]

I agree with RDM not getting much new really. 2 very situational abilities and 1 combo finisher.

And our dps being so low just because we have an easier time ressing people compared to SMN. If every player does what they need to do, we don't need Verraise.
And to justify taking a RDM over any other caster, other people need to screw up. That's not a good way to balance DPS in my opinion.

I know SE probably won't do anything big to RDM mid expansion but I just hoped for some additions to our rotation that aren't situational.
I love the new AoE though (Thank you SE!) but sadly in Trials & Raids AoE is barely ever a thing.

For now i'd just be happy with potency buffs.

[Eloah]

I didn't read everything because I honestly don't think I have a leg to stand on. But, please, we can't let the "meta" consume us, and a lot of what I saw is nothing but fitting g RDM into the Meta. We make the Meta work for us, not the other way around.

If it's a simple, "I feel weak and would like a potency buff" or "my rotation feel too complex for the amount of damage I do" those are good examples of wanting balanced gameplay. The second we start talking about "removing this skill for balance" or "using this skill is a DPS loss" or "you play X for prog and Y for farm" we're letting the Meta take hold and "control" us.

[Wayfinder3]

I didn't read everything because I honestly don't think I have a leg to stand on. But, please, we can't let the "meta" consume us, and a lot of what I saw is nothing but fitting g RDM into the Meta. We make the Meta work for us, not the other way around.

Has nothing to do with meta, it's purely based on disparities and RDMs kit not interacting properly with the RNG nature of it's burst window, the lack of resource control and the over/inconsistent taxation of verraise. i didn't drop the term meta in my post once because thats not my goal here

If it's a simple, "I feel weak and would like a potency buff" or "my rotation feel too complex for the amount of damage I do" those are good examples of wanting balanced gameplay. The second we start talking about "removing this skill for balance" or "using this skill is a DPS loss" or "you play X for prog and Y for farm" we're letting the Meta take hold and "control" us.

The problem is that, asking for these things usually bring Verraise to the forefront, if you look at this post. i deliberately made verraise a side topic in this discussion because the community can only ever talk about it and ignores all other aspects of rdm plays besides their percieved difficulty. Still what this thread devolved into is verraise this or that and the rotational issues i discussed are completely overshadowed. Verraise is actually toxic as the community can't seem to look past the skill and lacks the ability to quantify it's usefulness beyond when it COULD work as opposed to when it CAN'T. As a result, RDM is stuck in a limbo because nobody is willing to discuss any aspects of the job and all issues are generally met with Verraise. There is no progression here, only a circle jerk of "This is bad, and doesn't feel good" and "But Verraise..."