If SCH got Energy Drain back, why not do the same for WHMs?

[Archwizard]

DISCLAIMER: I know White Mage is in an excellent spot right now and I'm not idly asking for buffs because I'm under any delusion it "needs" them to compete. It was the first healer I leveled this expansion and I understand full-well it's crazy strong.

However, I would like to invite you to consider the following before you start throwing bricks at me just for saying "give" and "WHM" in the same sentence.

The primary justification for returning Energy Drain to Scholars has been so that Scholar would have a means to dump Aetherflow charges before its cooldown came back up, if healing skills weren't deemed necessary to burn them.

In the same sense, White Mage has a very similar resource system with its Lilies, but instead of being on a strict timer, it simply wishes to churn out Blood Lilies as often as possible for Afflatus Misery. However, the only means it has to do so right now is through healing spells, much like our Drain-less Scholars did -- and ones on the GCD at that, which means even less opportunity to use them during damage pushes.

So if SCH has an offensive resource dump "for when healing isn't necessary", why not do the same for WHM and its Lilies? Just for QoL?

For instance... Water magic? That's been a notable gap in WHM's arsenal since Fluid Aura lost its damage. It could still fit the Lily theme (Avatar fans know what I'm talking about), and even with the push to make WHM more Holy-oriented, we still see watery oGCD skills like "Divine" Benison. And with the lorebooks confirming Cure is Wind-aspected, we can't even argue "waters of life" for this, so it's just... weirdly missing.

To be clear here, I'm not suggesting that WHM necessarily even be "buffed" by this in any numeric sense. You could make Water no stronger than Glare or any rank of Stone, and just an alternative instant attack to spamming Aero/Dia in movement phases if the DoT's already on the target, akin to WHM's own Ruin II.
Alternately, it could be an oGCD attack, which would probably be mostly self-balancing without even needing to rank up, since it would always clip the GCD off Stone/Glare.
I honestly don't care how. My only concern in this thread is simply in offering the means to dump Lilies when your oGCDs were already sufficient healing.

If you've read this far and still disagree, feel free to throw bricks now, but I can't really see why we make one thing true for one but not the other.

[Mesarthim]

*Puts brick down*

One thing I'll give you is that I'm honestly confused on how fluid aura still exists in its current form. First it loses its damage, then it loses its knockback. I just finished leveling WHM to 80 and I didn't touch that skill once.

[Caliburn]

*Puts brick down*

One thing I'll give you is that I'm honestly confused on how fluid aura still exists in its current form. First it loses its damage, then it loses its knockback. I just finished leveling WHM to 80 and I didn't touch that skill once.

I think it's weird that chucking a ball of water at something is meant to bind it in place. Nothing fluid about that.

[Rosa_Frandlia]

I think it's weird that chucking a ball of water at something is meant to bind it in place. Nothing fluid about that.

It is the old druid "mud" spell from D&D. That's what it feels like. You are throwing water at the their feet to turn the ground to mud. Well, at least when dirt is what they are standing on.

[Kabooa]

I think it's weird that chucking a ball of water at something is meant to bind it in place. Nothing fluid about that.

Imagine your reaction upon getting slammed with a water balloon.

You sure aren't going flying, but you're probably standing there, motionless, wondering which of your life choices lead you to this moment.

[GrimGale]

I am a SCH main and I have leveled and used all three healers so far in 80 Extremes and Savage.

I think WHM is currently the best designed of all three.
I don't think WHM needs a Lilly dump, rather I'd give it the ability to weave lilly healing between casts by making Afflatus Rapture and Solace into oGCDs.

If anything I'd make Fluid Aura increase the speed of lilly production either increasing the lilly gauge by one or speeding up the generation by X for X seconds.

All changes would require to adjust potencies of course.

WHM feels a bit clunky. I wish you'd be able to weave spells better.

[Eisenhower]

WHM feels a bit clunky. I wish you'd be able to weave spells better.

If there was more of a semblance of balance between the healers and their design, I'd say that WHM being GCD-dependent is by design. But honestly at this point I suspect SQEX just fling pasta at the wall and whatever shapes stick are implemented.

[Shurrikhan]

...

WHM here. It's very unlikely in any remotely serious content that you and your co-healer would go more than 30 seconds without need for a single GCD heal. As you have zero cost to your filler dps for casting said heal, if the need is limited to roughly twice per minute, then that should be you casting it, while your cohealer keeps on dpsing. And honestly that's enough.

And once you're outside of serious content, such as in a dungeon, if you'd otherwise overcap before having need of a Lily, you just use it during downtime between pulls (or, during jumps, if such occurs). Unlike the old system, ShB Lilies don't require combat to proc a stack. You can run into combat having prepped 450n AoE and a further 450 against the main target. That's not bad value at all.

I don't think WHM needs a Lilly dump, rather I'd give it the ability to weave lilly healing between casts by making Afflatus Rapture and Solace into oGCDs.

And gods, no, do not do this. Maximized, you have a minimum of 6.66 oGCDs per minute (Assize twice per three minutes, two Assylum per three minutes, Thin Air once every other, LD, Tetra, Benedict twice per minutes, and Benediction once per three minutes), while having to compensate not only for the lulls in that average, but the bursts. These will in pairs require a Regen, Dia, or an Afflatus spell to cast without clipping, and trading Lily power and overall damage and healing potential to make Afflatus spells oGCD would only make clipping issues far, far worse. That or, in place of the obvious balance requirements, this guy is just asking to make WHM-WHM the standard meta. That's an extra 600 potency per minute on the job that already provides the easiest, most consistent healing and the most rDPS (yes, its sheer gap in pDPS outperforms what is provided by Cards, FW, or CS).

[Lagomorph]

Sch is different from whm because we want to use aetherflow on cd to gain mp, but we also don't want to waste our stacks because they build fairy gauge. I don't really think the same thing applies to whm because you don't really get punished for holding your lillies if you don't need to heal; using your lillies just to get to misery is a dps loss unless you use them during downtime or you get to aoe with misery. That being said, overhealing with lillies during downtime just to gain a misery feels pretty bad. I think giving back stoneskin (untraited) to white mage at the cost of 1 lily per use would be a fair compromise. It's a weaker option than using afflatus solace in terms of throughput, but being a 10 minute shield you can use it and be almost certain that the shield will get put to use at some point in time. This way during down time, a white mage can use their lillies in a somewhat meaningful way other than just overhealing for a misery use.

[Hereon]

I like the idea, however to not make it bonkers as all heck, using a lily that way should not build up the blood lily. Otherwise it would be massively overpowered.
And in terms of potency it would need to be at least 225, since that is the effective potency you build up by using a heal lily in terms of building towards misery.
I'd suggest it should be around 230-240 potency so you have a gain over spending it on healing. Since, even if i overheal with it, id choose the heal lily over a dmg lily if they have the same potency. 225 pot dmg + 1hp heal is still better than just 225 pot dmg.