Double True Rotation Monk Complaint...

[RemoveMateria]

This isn't /just/ about the ugly positional dance (there is no such thing as 100% free positionals even now), or having to git gud at a complex job or about monk "deserving" to do this much dps with double true, the whole point of this post is the amalgamation of all these issues which is: it feels like I'm playing an oversight in job design.

[Shurrikhan]

This isn't /just/ about the ugly positional dance (there is no such thing as 100% free positionals even now), or having to git gud at a complex job or about monk "deserving" to do this much dps with double true, the whole point of this post is the amalgamation of all these issues which is: it feels like I'm playing an oversight in job design.

If not for double-true being possible since ARR, I would agree fully.

But, it has been. It's nothing new. Thus, I must only tangentially agree, and for different reasons.

Admittedly, I dislike that double-true no longer also means double-boot, which meant (if caught w/o PB) side-side-back-back-back-side-back-back-side in ARR -- much more manageable.

The oversight isn't GL4, though. The oversight was giving Dragon Kick effectively 425 potency (637.5 effective potency) via its Leaden Fist buff.

[RemoveMateria]

Possible, but it never pulled this far ahead of single true rotation. It's basically mandatory. You don't have to go out of your way anymore with skillspeed, now the optimal amount of "normal" skillspeed to have allows double true.

[Rockette]

...feels like I'm playing an oversight in job design.

Because you are. This isn't supposed to be Monk's rotation anymore that Anatman was intended to be used in the opener. They have slapped some skills onto Monk then panicked and slapped on some more in the last patch. This isn't an oversight, they've ignored Monk core rotation since A Realm Reborn and all these bandaid fixes to keep it in line with other jobs have created this Frankenstein rotation.

Similar to accidentally creating the Tornado Kick rotation by changing Riddle of Wind last tier.

[Vendalwind]

I've been playing monk for a little now, (not very long) and am not yet lvl 80 BUT, I agree with you RemoveMateria. To be completely honest i would have rather seen earths reply being less useful and maintaining the positional aspect of monk more throughout.

Right now I am not attempting the double true method, but I can already see where it's problems stem from. I love the positional dance of monk, but on bosses like E2 for example I can very much see how switching positionals constantly would be effectively team killing since each dps is basically locked into one cardinal.

And having 45 seconds on average out of the minute be positional free, to then have 15 seconds of ridiculous position swapping every 1.5 seconds nearly it gets a liiiiiittle nuts. I like having a high skill cieling as much as the next person. But yeah I agree the two true strike combo should die I personally think.

And with MNK in the best positional in the game right now I feel like your proposed nerf to TS time of 3 seconds and proposed buff to its potency and reduction fo true strike potency slightly would be the best move. That being said I would want someone to look into if that 3 seconds dropped from TS had any issues in the normal rotation as well. just 2 seconds might be better.

As an additional note tho, to be aware you are definately not the only class with a priority system rather than a rotation.
DNC for example is exceptionally easy, but really is a priority system for sure thats completely random in point of fact.

[Nessiae]

I have an issue with monk. We have GL4 now, and that\\'s great! However, with the addition of GL4, even a small amount of SKS makes double True Strike rotation viable, because the rest of stats can be weighted towards crit>dh. Especially now that monk is so GCD focused, double true rotation is pulling ahead of what I\\'ll call the original rotation more than ever to the point where you\\'re just blatantly leaving damage on the table. A few problems in more detail:

-No other melee has to go rear flank rear flank rear flank. Monk doing double true rotation will often be swapping between positionals very frequently one gcd after the other, at times for 6 gcds in a row. It feels awful. And before I hear "Riddle of Earth! 2 True Norths!" There are still times where you may not have true north, are waiting on RoE to proc, or just have no reason to hit them and it\\'s safe to do the ugly positional dance. It\\'s ugly. I\\'ve always liked positionals as an afterthought, a passive expression of familiarity, but double true rotation brings positionals far too into the forefront

-No other melee is essentially playing with a priority system instead of a set rotation in the way monk is. Double true monk is essentially doing both rotations, as you have to mentally note when you miss a gcd of uptime for whatever reason, in which case you stop doing double true and will do the normal refresh of twin snakes. Monks now have to track not only demolish but also twin snakes in relation to the uptime you\\'ve kept, as well as leaden fist buff and time remaining on RoE, on top of every other cooldown while doing positionals. This job has become really busy in the ugliest way just by the original, reliable rotation becoming suboptimal. For every other job you can keep your rotation in more or less the back of your mind, with your main focus being cooldowns/resources and fight mechanics while you go through your trained and trusty rotation. Not monk anymore.

-To go along with the last point, the monk UI is SORELY LACKING. I don\\'t want to fish along my buff bar amongst party buffs, regens, shields, etc. for twin snakes, earth\\'s reply, and leaden fist. ALL OF THESE NEED TO BE PART OF THE JOB GAUGE. THEY ARE ALL CORE TO HOW THIS JOB FUNCTIONS.

-I\\'d wager a guess that double true rotation wasn\\'t considered when balancing this job\\'s damage, and it could be a big reason why monk is considered top tier right behind dragoon right now. The potency gain of working in nearly twice the true strikes in a fight over a monk doing the original rotation can\\'t be dismissed. I can\\'t say for sure what the devs used, but it just makes sense to assume they used ye olde rotation.

The potency gain is literally within RNG spreads, you can not do it and still out parse a mnk that does just by having slightly better luck. That hardly makes it mandatory.

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

Nerfing twin by 3s is a terrible idea. Especially for those leveling Monk. At GL1 i'm sure there is roughly 1 or 2s to refresh it. Subtracting 3s would make early monk feel bad to play while leveling. DRGs cried about their disembowel only having 1s left on refresh and they got it bumped up to 30s. Just increase Twin by 2 or 3s and solidify the rotation. Idm the rotation tbh makes the class feel artificially more faster with the extra movement. One thing I do agree on however, there are lots of timers we're watching, It would be nice if either leaden or twin could be more visible, perhaps a fist icon could light up akin to dark arts on DRK. When there's 10 buffs on my bar it's almost impossible to find where leaden and twin are.

[KageTokage]

I think I'm more bothered by how tight the window for triggering a third Leaden Fist during Perfect Balance is.

If you have any amount of noticeable latency at all you probably aren't going to be able to pull it off due to the fact that the game only makes the check for Perfect Balance being active when Dragon Kick actually connects as opposed to the moment you use it.

[Renkei]

I have an issue with monk. We have GL4 now, and that's great! However, with the addition of GL4, even a small amount of SKS makes double True Strike rotation viable, because the rest of stats can be weighted towards crit>dh. Especially now that monk is so GCD focused, double true rotation is pulling ahead of what I'll call the original rotation more than ever to the point where you're just blatantly leaving damage on the table. A few problems in more detail:

-No other melee has to go rear flank rear flank rear flank. Monk doing double true rotation will often be swapping between positionals very frequently one gcd after the other, at times for 6 gcds in a row. It feels awful. And before I hear "Riddle of Earth! 2 True Norths!" There are still times where you may not have true north, are waiting on RoE to proc, or just have no reason to hit them and it's safe to do the ugly positional dance. It's ugly. I've always liked positionals as an afterthought, a passive expression of familiarity, but double true rotation brings positionals far too into the forefront

-No other melee is essentially playing with a priority system instead of a set rotation in the way monk is. Double true monk is essentially doing both rotations, as you have to mentally note when you miss a gcd of uptime for whatever reason, in which case you stop doing double true and will do the normal refresh of twin snakes. Monks now have to track not only demolish but also twin snakes in relation to the uptime you've kept, as well as leaden fist buff and time remaining on RoE, on top of every other cooldown while doing positionals. This job has become really busy in the ugliest way just by the original, reliable rotation becoming suboptimal. For every other job you can keep your rotation in more or less the back of your mind, with your main focus being cooldowns/resources and fight mechanics while you go through your trained and trusty rotation. Not monk anymore.

-To go along with the last point, the monk UI is SORELY LACKING. I don't want to fish along my buff bar amongst party buffs, regens, shields, etc. for twin snakes, earth's reply, and leaden fist. ALL OF THESE NEED TO BE PART OF THE JOB GAUGE. THEY ARE ALL CORE TO HOW THIS JOB FUNCTIONS.

-I'd wager a guess that double true rotation wasn't considered when balancing this job's damage, and it could be a big reason why monk is considered top tier right behind dragoon right now. The potency gain of working in nearly twice the true strikes in a fight over a monk doing the original rotation can't be dismissed. I can't say for sure what the devs used, but it just makes sense to assume they used ye olde rotation.

Monk is ahead of Dragoon though in the majority of fights.