Lack of action against gathering bots, it needs to be changed, and soon

[Oxidized]

Awareness of how the gathering bots have destroyed markets across Crystal is going to end up causing me to unsub from this game; I used to find crafting and gathering to be enjoyable, but it is not possible when I cannot go to a node without seeing at least two bots ALWAYS there, following the same path for hours on end, or see their ridiculously-underpriced goods on the MB to reflect how little effort they put into gaining these resources. Heck, even typing about this is making me quite upset, so let me instead elaborate more about the nature of the activity and who I am as a player.

I am not talking about the gibberish-name RMT bots you can find in every major city in the game; those bots can never be fully dealt with, but they are at least being contained by SE to an extent (although they could do better). I am talking about player-run gathering bots, ones that run for hours on end along the same pre-determined path, gathering at unspoiled and (especially) ephemeral nodes to give them a steady stream of free resources. A lot of players probably run them, but the ones that need to be stop list tens of thousands of crystals and thousands of aethersands per day on MBs throughout our datacenter, effortlessly trivializing an activity that many legitimate crafters and gatherers derive a sense of enjoyment from. (I bolded the text because apparently SE does not understand this) While others may see farming as a chore, I found it to be relaxing, a way to enjoy some downtime in the game; this enjoyment is not possible when you have to be constantly reminded that your efforts can be shamelessly automated and allowed every time you try to poke around an ephemeral node.

I love how deep the crafting system is compared to other MMOs, so to see SE's stance be so lax against these bots is something I find to be truly tragic. I currently have 10 retainers and have crafted for world prog raiders in the past, yet even I can acknowledge that this elephant in the room is too much for me to ignore at this point. At this point, I do not see myself renewing my sub when WoW Classic comes out, which is an inferior game, but one I know for a fact is held to a much higher standard of fairness.

If anyone wants to know more (ESPECIALLY if you play on Crystal), please send me a PM. And yes, I have tried reporting 3 bots in particular using the following methods: RMT on the website, third-party software task force on the website, "Other" on the website, "Other" in-game, "Cheating" in game, and even "harassment in game", probably over 100 times total over the past 2-3 weeks alone, with no results.

[DrWho2010]

you're never going to see the results. they do the ban waves every so often. that's all the action you're going to get on it. the problem is never going to go away. you will never see instant results.

[Oxidized]

the problem is never going to go away. you will never see instant results.

And this may be the only MMO in which this holds true currently, and it does not have to be this way; if they put a fraction of the resources aimed to crack down on "harassment" towards this, it would no longer be a problem. Perhaps they would pay attention if they knew that many people have stopped paying their subs as a result of being tired of competing with not only bots, but bot owners who literally flaunt how much they get away with to people who play legitimately. Not to mention crafter subs tend to have a lot of additional "service" charges that should be a priority for them to retain.

they do the ban waves every so often. that's all the action you're going to get on it.

No, they do RMT gibberish bot banwaves every so often. They literally do not care about player-owned gathering bots, which are far more disruptive to endgame content, to the extent that an occasional banwave would be a SIGNIFICANT upgrade at this point.

[KageTokage]

I think the problem is that they're under the mistaken impression that all bots are going to exhibit red flags that can be detected using a packet reader or some other kind of tool that analyzes the data someone's client is sending the server when that generally is not the case. Only poorly programmed bots are going to behave in ways that blatantly go beyond what's actually possible for a legit player to do.

There's no substitute for first-hand investigation, especially when the bots are so painfully obvious that it generally doesn't take more then a cursory glance to identify them.

The STF is too puny of a team to realistically address the entire game's issues with cheaters so they really should be allowing the GMs to take action against them.

At this point I am convinced that they're aware it's an issue but are simply unwilling to bother changing their methods because it's just not a high priority to them. Which is unfortunate when they're going to be attempting push a competitive aspect for DoH/L classes with the Ishgard Restoration which is almost certain to be dominated by bots.

[CookiesNCreams]

It’s 100% not going to happen. The devs just don’t seem to really care. In the recent live letter, they stated male characters can’t get a stubble/beard because it’s...(drum roll) “too hard.” lol That basically sums up FFXIV’s dedicated, yet lazy, development team.

[Oxidized]

I think the problem is that they're under the mistaken impression that all bots are going to exhibit red flags that can be detected using a packet reader or some other kind of tool that analyzes the data someone's client is sending the server when that generally is not the case. Only poorly programmed bots are going to behave in ways that blatantly go beyond what's actually possible for a legit player to do.

There's no substitute for first-hand investigation, especially when the bots are so painfully obvious that it generally doesn't take more then a cursory glance to identify them.

The STF is too puny of a team to realistically address the entire game's issues with cheaters so they really should be allowing the GMs to take action against them.

At this point I am convinced that they're aware it's an issue but are simply unwilling to bother changing their methods because it's just not a high priority to them. Which is unfortunate when they're going to be attempting push a competitive aspect for DoH/L classes with the Ishgard Restoration which is almost certain to be dominated by bots.

I could not agree more with everything you have said; I am a MMO veteran, and I have a particular understanding of how bots operated and were eventually defeated in World of Warcraft. The big takeaway is this: even when they lacked the capability to stem the tide of cheating through automatic means a decade ago, bots were still banned because they looked into individual player reports concerning the issue.

I know my testimony will not make a difference in the short run, but if it can allow others who love the DoH/DoL aspect of the game as much as I do to gain a greater understanding about just how tainted the MB really is, perhaps something will be done about it in time.

I can just imagine the server uproar if the Ishgardian Restoration is bot-dominated, perhaps it will serve as a nice wake-up call not only to SE, but to crafters and gatherers who are unaware of just how disadvantaged they are on the MB.

[KageTokage]

I think I got more bots banned in the first few weeks of WoW's Cataclysm expansion releasing then I did in the three years I've been playing XIV. They actually reply to reports there and make a statement about whether or not they took action against a suspect player so you know that you're not just wasting your time. They also didn't give people the benefit of the doubt and actually encouraged filing additional reports if they couldn't initially find a grounds to ban a suspicious player.

This problem really isn't something with a complicated solution; it's just a matter of them actually wanting to solve it.

I've seen people arguing that they don't ban people because it would "hurt their profits", but if that's the case, I don't get why they'd be keeping a double standard and being extremely trigger-happy when it comes to social issues yet seemingly turn a blind eye to cheaters.

[Fiorinol]

I have to agree. Many players on my server brag openly about botting. Some of them own houses solely for the purpose of botting crafting. Just now I'm collecting aethersand, and there are 3 players here who I know are bots, because they told me they bot. These are the same people who flood the marketboard with thousands of aethersand, driving prices down.

[Vnolan]

Awareness of how the gathering bots have destroyed markets across Crystal is going to end up causing me to unsub from this game;

You can go ahead and get started on that unsub process because SE isn't going to change anything.

Absentee/Automated gameplay (botting) is all but promoted by SE at this point.

1. As you mentioned, it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to get player bots banned
2. GMs won't touch topics like this other than to state the ToS or direct you to the STF
3. There is no communication between the STF and players
4. The STF cannot check logs and see that someone was botting in the past
5. The penalty for botting is just a 72-hour ban, whether they were botting for a day or a year
6. Players are not monitored after getting caught and can go right back to botting after their ban ends
7. You are not allowed to name bots. Not only will your post get removed, but they will not investigate the named player

Just now I'm collecting aethersand, and there are 3 players here who I know are bots, because they told me they bot.

I saw about six when I was gathering the other day, including one that advertises RMT content sales in the PF and one I was talking about in this thread I made in January of 2017

[KageTokage]

Not to mention the community reps who are supposed to escalating matters that are repeatedly being brought up as issues always ignore topics like this.

I cannot help but wonder if they just have some laundry list of "subjects to ignore" that they refer to.