Samurai's Battle Design

[Drayos]

I think the MNK and DRG being higher than SAM is how it should be, NIN placed above MNK, along with BLM being a bit lower on the DPS front. And the others raised.
In the perfect setting where EVERYONE is 100th percentile. Personal only DPS classes should be lower than party utility DPS in terms of raid DPS.
Having classes with no raid utility always doing more damage in every level of skill is insane, counter productive, and small minded.
Why would you ever give a spot to a utility DPS if they will never get close to personal DPS kings?

If SAMs get their way of crying through.. and raised to rDPS over everyone and same with BLM, there will NEVER be a spot for utility DPS outside of the parties who wants to use a tissue after watching their own DPS inflated into oblivion.
Progression group PF: NO UTILITY CLASSES! BLM BLM SAM SAM ONLY. NO NOOB
Quick Weekly Kill: BLM BLM BLM BLM
-Page that will not be named- Log runs: SAM NIN DRG DNC (TA every 1min, Dance partner/Dragon eye SAM or KICK)

This makes 0 sense.

Rdps is raid dps + personal dps. Monk currently is over performing because it has too much utility for the dps.

Stormblood has the same thing with BLM and Sam being top contenders for dps and this was not the case.

Because u want to bring the utility to bolster these jobs dps.

Also stacking dps makes lb generation slower so I don’t think that will happen either

[CrashofZenki]

This makes 0 sense.

Rdps is raid dps + personal dps. Monk currently is over performing because it has too much utility for the dps.

Stormblood has the same thing with BLM and Sam being top contenders for dps and this was not the case.

Because u want to bring the utility to bolster these jobs dps.

Also stacking dps makes lb generation slower so I don’t think that will happen either

IF UTILITY DPS'S TOTAL DPS (PERSONAL+UTILITY) NEVER EXCEED THE DPS A SAM OR BLM EVEN AT FULL PARTY OF 100TH PERCENTILES THEN WHAT IS THE POINT IN HAVING UTILITY DPS IN THIS GAME?
HOW HARD IS IT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS NO LOGIC BEHIND BOOSTING PERSONAL DPS CLASSES WAY HIGHER AT ANY GIVEN POINT?
Please, just think.

[MasyMasy]

IF UTILITY DPS'S TOTAL DPS (PERSONAL+UTILITY) NEVER EXCEED THE DPS A SAM OR BLM EVEN AT FULL PARTY OF 100TH PERCENTILES THEN WHAT IS THE POINT IN HAVING UTILITY DPS IN THIS GAME?
HOW HARD IS IT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS NO LOGIC BEHIND BOOSTING PERSONAL DPS CLASSES WAY HIGHER AT ANY GIVEN POINT?
Please, just think.

If the utility classes outdo the pure DPS than what is the point of having pure DPS in this game?

rDPS on Utility based DPS SHOULD have a chance IF played NEARLY PERFECTLY with a NEARLY PERFECT group of EIGHT people DEAL more TOTAL DPS, than a DPS with NO party damage utility buffs.

The problem is that you don't even have to play perfectly anymore to make bringing a DRG/MNK instead of a SAM worth it. Progressing through E3/4S I played MNK because I barely even had to put in the same amount of work that I did for SAM and yet I still pulled the same rDPS I would have if i played well on SAM. That's unacceptable and it's the same reason that Ninjas are also complaining about their spot now.

[Drayos]

IF UTILITY DPS'S TOTAL DPS (PERSONAL+UTILITY) NEVER EXCEED THE DPS A SAM OR BLM EVEN AT FULL PARTY OF 100TH PERCENTILES THEN WHAT IS THE POINT IN HAVING UTILITY DPS IN THIS GAME?
HOW HARD IS IT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS NO LOGIC BEHIND BOOSTING PERSONAL DPS CLASSES WAY HIGHER AT ANY GIVEN POINT?
Please, just think.

because.

the DPS Is split in two

RDPS and PDPS, a Ninja should do as much RDPS as a BLM/SAM. but its PDPS Should never be of a BLM/SAM.

So for example.

If Ninja does 2700 DPS Less DPS then a BLM, Trick attack needs to make 2700 RDPS.

Providing it does this, it'll equal BLM/SAM Due to the buff its providing, however its Personal DPS Doesnt need to match BLM to achieve this.

[Rivxkobe]

I honestly don't care if they go one way or the other. If SAM is made to get the most damage during party buffs or not. All I care about is SAM doing what it does without utility and not having Melee Jobs with utility stepping on its toes and leaving SAM in their dust.

SAM should do damage, it should do all damage through attacks and not through applying raid buffs, and DPS should reflect this. It shouldn't need to buff another job to get massive gains to its rDPS, it should be the one getting them. MNK and DRG are just better at receiving right now because they also give things to the party and do high personal damage.

[armandojc3]

I like the new midare rotation better. Then again I also preffer the new DRK so im probably in the minority of this forum.

[KouYanagi]

Samurai should be the 'selfish' DPS because it's brothers (DRG, NIN and MNK) already has utility, tons of it. DRG's Dragon Eye, NIN's Trick attack and MNK's Mantra and Brotherhood, all of these utility bring a lot to the table. However my problem with the current balance of things is, sure they bring utility so if banded together they are supposed to do more DPS than the SAM thats all well and good but the problems comes when even with RDPS, SAM is still doing more poorly than DRG and MNKs. The two brother classes still benefit and they get even stronger for using it. So why can't SAM be able to do such damage? Must they be crippled just because they don't have any utility?

My personal answer is no. Their 'utility' is damage, their own damage, its no different from the other classes whose utility gives them more damage as well as the people around. Thats what a DPS is.

[mapotofuuu]

Eh I don't get why pick a SAM over utility jobs if it only bring to the table even or slightly higher dps? What if that person underperform not like they bring some utlity to help mitigate that team dps loss so why take the risk for so little return?

[Wavaryen]

This is the problem with the whole. "bring buffs class and non bring buff class". Just get rid of all group buffs from dps IMO. and balance the classes out so people can enjoy the style instead of the damage.

[CrashofZenki]

Power Break — Inflicts damage and greatly lowers enemy Strength.
Magic Break — Inflicts damage and greatly lowers enemy Magic. Useful against powerful spell casting enemies.
Armor Break — Inflicts damage and greatly lowers enemy Defense. This also nullifies armor on armored enemies which otherwise only Piercing weapons can do normal damage against.
Mental Break — Inflicts damage and greatly lowers enemy Magic Defense.

Why not put Utility on SAM? They have the basis for it.

Focus — Increases the magic and magic defense of all allies, the effect can be stacked up to 5 times.
Reflex — Raises the evasion of all allies, the effect can be stacked up to 5 times.
Drown - Water-elemental spell that deals Water damage over time and lowers an enemy's Strength.
Frost -Ice-elemental spell that deals Ice damage over time and reduces Intelligence stat.

There is a lot of grounds to make BLM have utility too.

This way we can stop the Personal DPS vs Utility DPS fight once and for all.