Samurai's Battle Design

[CrashofZenki]

This makes 0 sense.

Rdps is raid dps + personal dps. Monk currently is over performing because it has too much utility for the dps.

Stormblood has the same thing with BLM and Sam being top contenders for dps and this was not the case.

Because u want to bring the utility to bolster these jobs dps.

Also stacking dps makes lb generation slower so I don’t think that will happen either

IF UTILITY DPS'S TOTAL DPS (PERSONAL+UTILITY) NEVER EXCEED THE DPS A SAM OR BLM EVEN AT FULL PARTY OF 100TH PERCENTILES THEN WHAT IS THE POINT IN HAVING UTILITY DPS IN THIS GAME?
HOW HARD IS IT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS NO LOGIC BEHIND BOOSTING PERSONAL DPS CLASSES WAY HIGHER AT ANY GIVEN POINT?
Please, just think.

[Eliadil]

snip

This is an interesting question, because with your way of balancing then having a party (nin, drg, dnc) buffing a monk should make overall more damage than the whole party buffing a samurai ? Why ? If SAM, even boosted, cannot compete with a boosted monk or a dragoon, then can you explain to me what is the point of actually having a sam in your party ?

Also maybe checking how sam was integrated into comps in stormblood could help you too. SAM and BLM were always the one to receive every buff, because they can give back way more numbers. Still, for every 1% of dps they got increased by their group, the group didn't get anything back. Which is why Samurai was never actually played that much through Stormblood's high level content. Because peoples wanted everybody to be able to buff the party. Remember "meta comps".

Why do peoples will keep boosting a Samurai in their party whenever there is one instead of buffing a Dragoon or a Monk ?

Let's take a Dancer as an example.

Dancer will buff Dragoon, that does 10k5 DPS. It will add 5% to its damage.
Dancer will buff Samurai, that does 11k DPS. It will add 5% to its damage.

In what situation will the dancer actually give more damage ? When it boost the Samurai. However, Dragoon also compensate for their lower pDPS because DRG can also buff other party members as well, giving them more damage.

In the ideal scenario, the total damage of a whole raid (8 peoples) should remain unchanged no matter what class you pick. However, the way the damage's dealt by each class should change based on raid composition. This way it allows every class to be picked for every type of content without making some class less usefull to clear said content.

Right now this isn't the case however. Ninja doesn't deal enough, RDM and SMN are not dealing enough too and each of these three classes do not provides enough buff to rDPS to compensate for their low damage. On the other end, Samurai is also not doing enough damage because a monk deals the same amount of damage than a samurai while having buffs to increase the rDPS of other peoples. This means that right now, a Samurai has no chance to be as usefull as a monk, a dancer, a bard... Because each of these class compensate their "lower" damage by having some really good rDPS. Things that a Samurai does not have.

Hope it helped you understand a bit of the situation.

[CrashofZenki]

snip.

I believe you are not understanding what Im trying to say here.
99% Of the time it will be more ideal, and better damage wise to go pure personal DPS in a comp with buffers with the way I explained. Only in VERY high end 98th + percentile x8, there will be a gain to exclude SAM/BLM. As I stated, and I will state it again:

rDPS on Utility based DPS SHOULD have a chance IF played NEARLY PERFECTLY with a NEARLY PERFECT group of EIGHT people DEAL more TOTAL DPS, than a DPS with NO party damage utility buffs.

The result would be that people would usually take personal DPS heavy classes and some utility classes in most cases. aka, it removes META. The ONLY place there will be even a sliver of META would be in the INSANE ONE IN A MILLION Statics, and that wont make it META, now will it? Because in 99% of the statics/PFs the result will be putting a SAM and/or BLM, making the fight more smooth. While retaining the opening for having utility DPS without it being SAM or BLM or w/e high DPS that is now carrying a Utility DPS.

[armandojc3]

I like the new midare rotation better. Then again I also preffer the new DRK so im probably in the minority of this forum.

[KouYanagi]

Samurai should be the 'selfish' DPS because it's brothers (DRG, NIN and MNK) already has utility, tons of it. DRG's Dragon Eye, NIN's Trick attack and MNK's Mantra and Brotherhood, all of these utility bring a lot to the table. However my problem with the current balance of things is, sure they bring utility so if banded together they are supposed to do more DPS than the SAM thats all well and good but the problems comes when even with RDPS, SAM is still doing more poorly than DRG and MNKs. The two brother classes still benefit and they get even stronger for using it. So why can't SAM be able to do such damage? Must they be crippled just because they don't have any utility?

My personal answer is no. Their 'utility' is damage, their own damage, its no different from the other classes whose utility gives them more damage as well as the people around. Thats what a DPS is.

[mapotofuuu]

Eh I don't get why pick a SAM over utility jobs if it only bring to the table even or slightly higher dps? What if that person underperform not like they bring some utlity to help mitigate that team dps loss so why take the risk for so little return?

[Wavaryen]

This is the problem with the whole. "bring buffs class and non bring buff class". Just get rid of all group buffs from dps IMO. and balance the classes out so people can enjoy the style instead of the damage.

[MasyMasy]

IF UTILITY DPS'S TOTAL DPS (PERSONAL+UTILITY) NEVER EXCEED THE DPS A SAM OR BLM EVEN AT FULL PARTY OF 100TH PERCENTILES THEN WHAT IS THE POINT IN HAVING UTILITY DPS IN THIS GAME?
HOW HARD IS IT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS NO LOGIC BEHIND BOOSTING PERSONAL DPS CLASSES WAY HIGHER AT ANY GIVEN POINT?
Please, just think.

If the utility classes outdo the pure DPS than what is the point of having pure DPS in this game?

rDPS on Utility based DPS SHOULD have a chance IF played NEARLY PERFECTLY with a NEARLY PERFECT group of EIGHT people DEAL more TOTAL DPS, than a DPS with NO party damage utility buffs.

The problem is that you don't even have to play perfectly anymore to make bringing a DRG/MNK instead of a SAM worth it. Progressing through E3/4S I played MNK because I barely even had to put in the same amount of work that I did for SAM and yet I still pulled the same rDPS I would have if i played well on SAM. That's unacceptable and it's the same reason that Ninjas are also complaining about their spot now.

[Drayos]

IF UTILITY DPS'S TOTAL DPS (PERSONAL+UTILITY) NEVER EXCEED THE DPS A SAM OR BLM EVEN AT FULL PARTY OF 100TH PERCENTILES THEN WHAT IS THE POINT IN HAVING UTILITY DPS IN THIS GAME?
HOW HARD IS IT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS NO LOGIC BEHIND BOOSTING PERSONAL DPS CLASSES WAY HIGHER AT ANY GIVEN POINT?
Please, just think.

because.

the DPS Is split in two

RDPS and PDPS, a Ninja should do as much RDPS as a BLM/SAM. but its PDPS Should never be of a BLM/SAM.

So for example.

If Ninja does 2700 DPS Less DPS then a BLM, Trick attack needs to make 2700 RDPS.

Providing it does this, it'll equal BLM/SAM Due to the buff its providing, however its Personal DPS Doesnt need to match BLM to achieve this.

[CrashofZenki]

Power Break — Inflicts damage and greatly lowers enemy Strength.
Magic Break — Inflicts damage and greatly lowers enemy Magic. Useful against powerful spell casting enemies.
Armor Break — Inflicts damage and greatly lowers enemy Defense. This also nullifies armor on armored enemies which otherwise only Piercing weapons can do normal damage against.
Mental Break — Inflicts damage and greatly lowers enemy Magic Defense.

Why not put Utility on SAM? They have the basis for it.

Focus — Increases the magic and magic defense of all allies, the effect can be stacked up to 5 times.
Reflex — Raises the evasion of all allies, the effect can be stacked up to 5 times.
Drown - Water-elemental spell that deals Water damage over time and lowers an enemy's Strength.
Frost -Ice-elemental spell that deals Ice damage over time and reduces Intelligence stat.

There is a lot of grounds to make BLM have utility too.

This way we can stop the Personal DPS vs Utility DPS fight once and for all.