Something doesn't add up regarding the connection between Amdapor and Norvrandt...

[Ardox]

/snip

I'm pretty sure they are still 2 different poles. I'm referring to this article

It gets confusing because there are two different uses of "Darkness" and "Light" now. There are the actual forces/energies that we're dealing with at a large scale, which is what Koji is talking about in that interview (the only concept we had at that time).

Now Shadowbringers has thrown in Darkness and Light as Norvrandt's terms for the active and passive energy poles, which coincidentally line up with the aspects of actual Darkness and Light.
/snip

That interview was made in March 2017, 3.5 had launched in January 2017 and 4.0 launched in June. I'm going to make the assumption they had started to really pinned down what Astral/Umbral and what Light/Darkness were by that moment since they were already planning for the next expantion.

I really think the revelation we got from Urianger is that Astral and Umbral should now be distinguished from Light and Darkness. What was confusing me (and what i feel confuse a lot of player atm) is I made the relation Astral=Light and Umbral=Darkness since ARR and nothing made that assumption false up to that point. The explanation is pretty clear thought:
1) There's no umbral or astral energies, it's only a state of how one element or a mix of element manifest;
2) Darkness and Light are true energies, not elements;
3) Darkness and Light are not the same thing as Astral and Umbral; (But we now know they can have Umbral/Astral charges)



---EDIT---
Adding the relevant quote

Koji Fox: So, you have the elements—and it’s still six elements, there are no newly-discovered ones. Those elements have charges—umbral and astral. If something has “umbral energy”, it is one or more of those elements, individual or combined. So if elements have an umbral charge, it can be said that they are “umbral energies”. That’s where those terms come from, “astral energies” and “umbral energies” are not individual things, it’s a blanket term. Light and Dark are not elements, but they are energies…in a different sense. They are not elements, they are not of the elements, and they are not astral or umbral. It’s a different type of energy. You might see a Light and Dark sprite and think, oh, they must be elemetals, but those are made of an entirely different form of energy.

emphasize mine

[Iscah]

That interview was made in March 2017, 3.5 had launched in January 2017 and 4.0 launched in June. I'm going to make the assumption they had started to really pinned down what Astral/Umbral and what Light/Darkness were by that moment since they were already planning for the next expantion.

I really think the revelation we got from Urianger is that Astral and Umbral should now be distinguished from Light and Darkness. What was confusing me (and what i feel confuse a lot of player atm) is I made the relation Astral=Light and Umbral=Darkness since ARR and nothing made that assumption false up to that point. The explanation is pretty clear thought:
1) There's no umbral or astral energies, it's only a state of how one element or a mix of element manifest;
2) Darkness and Light are true energies, not elements;
3) Darkness and Light are not the same thing as Astral and Umbral; (But we now know they can have Umbral/Astral charges)

I'm not saying that umbral and astral are "energies". They're polarities or aspects which can apply to any of the elements.

And while Eorzea uses those terms, they are labeled differently on the First.

The active polarity is named "astral" in Eorzea and "Darkness" in Norvrant.

The passive polarity is named "umbral" and "Light".

Meanwhile, separate to the Dark (active) polarity and Light (passive) polarity, there is Dark energy and Light energy. They're separate concepts using the same terms.

[Ardox]

I'm not saying that umbral and astral are "energies". They're polarities or aspects which can apply to any of the elements.

And while Eorzea uses those terms, they are labeled differently on the First.

The active polarity is named "astral" in Eorzea and "Darkness" in Norvrant.

The passive polarity is named "umbral" and "Light".

Meanwhile, separate to the Dark (active) polarity and Light (passive) polarity, there is Dark energy and Light energy. They're separate concepts using the same terms.

Ok, I see what you mean now,

To be honest, the Source people don't really use Astral/Umbral either in their dialogues. At this point, I'd have to replay the game and pay attention when they use the terms astral, light, umbral and darkness to see if they make any distinction. From what I understand, in Eorzea, astral and light are just as much synonyms as astral and darkness would be in Novrant.

yeap.. it's confusing..

[Iscah]

Ok, I see what you mean now,

To be honest, the Source people don't really use Astral/Umbral either in their dialogues. At this point, I'd have to replay the game and pay attention when they use the terms astral, light, umbral and darkness to see if they make any distinction. From what I understand, in Eorzea, astral and light are just as much synonyms as astral and darkness would be in Novrant.

yeap.. it's confusing..

They're totally separate concepts in Eorzea, and not used interchangeably.

The polarities (and eras) are referred to as astral and umbral, but never directly as light and dark - although you naturally might connect the concepts.

The Scions talk about the Light and Dark forces in the battle between Hydaelyn and the Ascians, but never describe those powers as astral or umbral.

[Ardox]

They're totally separate concepts in Eorzea, and not used interchangeably.

The polarities (and eras) are referred to as astral and umbral, but never directly as light and dark - although you naturally might connect the concepts.

The Scions talk about the Light and Dark forces in the battle between Hydaelyn and the Ascians, but never describe those powers as astral or umbral.

It's here our reading diverge. Urianger is surprised to discover that light can be describe as umbral by his sejourn on the First. How would someone be surprised by something they already know? (That Astral/Umbral are entirely different concepts)

[Seraphor]

Ok, I see what you mean now,

To be honest, the Source people don't really use Astral/Umbral either in their dialogues. At this point, I'd have to replay the game and pay attention when they use the terms astral, light, umbral and darkness to see if they make any distinction. From what I understand, in Eorzea, astral and light are just as much synonyms as astral and darkness would be in Novrant.

yeap.. it's confusing..

I think it's more that on the Source, people know about Astral/Umbral (or Active/Passive polarity) and they also know about Light/Dark energies, but having not witnessed a flood as they did on the First, they never had a direct link between them.
With Umbral having manifested on the First as a 'Flood of Light' whether or not they're technically the 'same' thing, they were able to make that link.

[Ouen]

Ok, I see what you mean now,

To be honest, the Source people don't really use Astral/Umbral either in their dialogues. At this point, I'd have to replay the game and pay attention when they use the terms astral, light, umbral and darkness to see if they make any distinction. From what I understand, in Eorzea, astral and light are just as much synonyms as astral and darkness would be in Novrant.

yeap.. it's confusing..

Every time I try wrapping my head around this topic it explodes again. There's some really awesome discussion here that helps a lot. At first I thought it was simple enough, but the more I read, the more I realize I don't fully understand the concept Uriangier was explaining.

For the reason you state, I can't wait for New Game+. I've replayed bits of the game on alts and when you go through the story once again, knowing the significance of what's to happen in the future, it puts everything in a different light. At the launch of 4.0, I didn't even remember encountering Meffrid at Quarrymill. However, after I revisited ARR post-Stormblood, doing that segment and talking to the people at Little Ala Mhigo I'm like "WAAAIT... I'm starting to see all these connections now!" If it wasn't such a slog, I'd like to replay the game after each expansion because it all takes on a different color once you learn things that the new story presents.

There's a lot of conflicting speculation about whether Emet's supposed convictions and goals are based on reality, if they're exaggerations or even perhaps deception. When I see Ascians pop up earlier in the story now, so much more weight and context is lent to those events after receiving the lore he's given us with Amaurot. Whether the events surrounding the Sundering happened as he portrayed them or not, it still just makes earlier events so much more interesting IMO. I hope New Game+ is challenging and gives some good titles/rewards and hope that what we've learned has some grains of truth at least. It seems unclear to a lot of people (myself included) what New Game+ actually is beyond changing the MSQ flags, but I'm excited to go back through nonetheless.

[Iscah]

I hope New Game+ is challenging and gives some good titles/rewards and hope that what we've learned has some grains of truth at least. It seems unclear to a lot of people (myself included) what New Game+ actually is beyond changing the MSQ flags, but I'm excited to go back through nonetheless.

Don't expect anything beyond "restart the story with your levels/gear intact" - that's all it is in any game often enough, and all we've heard will be included here.

[Absimiliard]

Don't expect anything beyond "restart the story with your levels/gear intact" - that's all it is in any game often enough, and all we've heard will be included here.

I know this isn't gonna happen, but how awesome would it be if we could actually get raid equivalent gear out of it? Making a ridiculously difficult MSQ NG+ and giving it actual rewards would really incentivize to do it without harming the raiding side of the game at all. We would all still raid. The pursuit of BiS is eternal.

[TankHunter678]

I know this isn't gonna happen, but how awesome would it be if we could actually get raid equivalent gear out of it? Making a ridiculously difficult MSQ NG+ and giving it actual rewards would really incentivize to do it without harming the raiding side of the game at all. We would all still raid. The pursuit of BiS is eternal.

I would rather that the NG+ offered new glamours then raid gear. Seeing how if the NG+ just gave us quest rewards it could be used for leveling alt classes while experiencing the story again.