Something doesn't add up regarding the connection between Amdapor and Norvrandt...

[MrThinker]

The raid storyline makes it clear that if they stayed in the Empty for too long they would turn into Sin Eaters. The Empty was created by Eden passing through and passively performing its function of transitioning all aether in its vicinity to extreme astral polarity. Minfilia stopped the Flood by asserting control over it with the help of the First WoL souls and putting it to sleep.

On the off chance that this wasnt a typo, Eden turned all aether in its vicinity to the umbral polarity in order to cause the flood.

[TankHunter678]

On the off chance that this wasnt a typo, Eden turned all aether in its vicinity to the umbral polarity in order to cause the flood.

Astral is the Light Element which is stasis, slowness, and stability. Umbral is the Dark Element which is chaos, change, and creation. As stated in the ShB MSQ in Il Mheg.

Eden as a Guardian Force made of Light by design slows everything to a standstill where it enters stasis. What we are doing with Eden in the raid is using its ability to affect polarities to move everything towards an Umbral charge, speeding it back up.

This is also why periods of Peace in history where everything is stable are called Astral Eras, while periods of chaos and rapid change are called Umbral Eras.

So no, that is not a typo.

[Seraphor]

Astral is the Light Element which is stasis, slowness, and stability. Umbral is the Dark Element which is chaos, change, and creation. As stated in the ShB MSQ in Il Mheg.

Eden as a Guardian Force made of Light by design slows everything to a standstill where it enters stasis. What we are doing with Eden in the raid is using its ability to affect polarities to move everything towards an Umbral charge, speeding it back up.

This is also why periods of Peace in history where everything is stable are called Astral Eras, while periods of chaos and rapid change are called Umbral Eras.

So no, that is not a typo.

No, Umbral is stasis, which is Light.

Astral is creation and Darkness.

This is stated... in the MSQ, in Il Mheg...

I don't think you were paying close enough attention.
There's a reason why Shadowbringers has turned our understanding of Astral/Umbral on its head, why we now realise that the naming of Astral/Umbral era's is a misnomer.

[LineageRazor]

In regards to the Amdapori, I'm on board (and have mentioned as such in the past) with the folks who don't think that the mages of Amdapor witnessed the Sin Eaters on the First. They saw them somewhere else. Perhaps another shard tipped dangerously close to a Flood, but was reined in by the Ascians because the Source wasn't ready for a Rejoining. Perhaps the Sin Eaters occurred naturally in a Light-rich environment, and were mistaken by the Amdapori as being from a "higher plane" - the folks on the First made this mistake themselves, after all, originally believing Sin Eaters to be holy beings come to punish them for their sins. Another possibility, perhaps they were manufactured deliberately by way of Light-aspected experimentation, much as the Allagans created artificial Voidsent.

It's possible that wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey shenanigans allowed the Amdapori to peek at present-era First, but I think it's more likely they saw Sin Eaters elsewhere.

Another possibility is that there really IS a light-suffused plane that is apart from all the fourteen shards, but I find that less likely than the time shenanigans, to be honest. It's still on the table, however! The writers have many avenues they could take, if they ever bother to explain the situation.

No, Umbral is stasis, which is Light.

Astral is creation and Darkness.

Yes, this is correct, and was confirmed in the MSQ. We are all well aware that it runs contrary to the REAL LIFE meanings of Umbral and Astral (the former meaning "shaded" which lends itself more to darkness, and the latter meaning "starlike" which lends itself better to light). In-game Light is Umbral, and Darkness is Astral.

[Ardox]

In regards to the Amdapori, I'm on board (and have mentioned as such in the past) with the folks who don't think that the mages of Amdapor witnessed the Sin Eaters on the First. They saw them somewhere else. Perhaps another shard tipped dangerously close to a Flood, but was reined in by the Ascians because the Source wasn't ready for a Rejoining. Perhaps the Sin Eaters occurred naturally in a Light-rich environment, and were mistaken by the Amdapori as being from a "higher plane" - the folks on the First made this mistake themselves, after all, originally believing Sin Eaters to be holy beings come to punish them for their sins. Another possibility, perhaps they were manufactured deliberately by way of Light-aspected experimentation, much as the Allagans created artificial Voidsent.

It's possible that wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey shenanigans allowed the Amdapori to peek at present-era First, but I think it's more likely they saw Sin Eaters elsewhere.

Another possibility is that there really IS a light-suffused plane that is apart from all the fourteen shards, but I find that less likely than the time shenanigans, to be honest. It's still on the table, however! The writers have many avenues they could take, if they ever bother to explain the situation.


Yes, this is correct, and was confirmed in the MSQ. We are all well aware that it runs contrary to the REAL LIFE meanings of Umbral and Astral (the former meaning "shaded" which lends itself more to darkness, and the latter meaning "starlike" which lends itself better to light). In-game Light is Umbral, and Darkness is Astral.

Actually, those 2 interpretations are wrong.

Umbral / Astral is a different axis than Light / Darkness

[ObsidianFire]

Umbral / Astral is a different axis than Light / Darkness

As of ShB, this isn't correct anymore. It would be more accurate to say that Umbral/Astral is the effect of the Light/Darkness cause.

Light and Darkness are like two poles of a magnet. Light pulls aether into a Static State and Darkness pulls aether into an Active State. On the Source, Umbral is associated with Static Aether, and is therefore caused by Light. Darkness is associated with Active Aether and is therefore caused by Darkness.

On the 1st Shard, Umbral and Astral aren't even terms people use to describe aether aspects. Instead they use Light and Dark to describe what causes aether to be in the state it is in.

I think it's wrong to say that Umbral and Astral are mislabeled when they were never really identified with Light and Darkness in the first place. They are terms that describe an effect Light and Darkness cause and the effect they are describing is something that does happen. It's just that the cause of Umbral and Astral aether was never named on the Source. Probably because the Source has never seen a time where Light and Dark have been universally out of balance to the degree that the 1st Shard did.

[Ardox]

/snip

I'm pretty sure they are still 2 different poles. I'm referring to this article

Koji Fox: So, you have the elements—and it’s still six elements, there are no newly-discovered ones. Those elements have charges—umbral and astral. If something has “umbral energy”, it is one or more of those elements, individual or combined. So if elements have an umbral charge, it can be said that they are “umbral energies”. That’s where those terms come from, “astral energies” and “umbral energies” are not individual things, it’s a blanket term. Light and Dark are not elements, but they are energies…in a different sense. They are not elements, they are not of the elements, and they are not astral or umbral. It’s a different type of energy. You might see a Light and Dark sprite and think, oh, they must be elemetals, but those are made of an entirely different form of energy.

[geekgirl101]

No, Umbral is stasis, which is Light.

Astral is creation and Darkness.

This is stated... in the MSQ, in Il Mheg...

I remember Urianger saying something about that when he pointed at an elemental chart and asked whether we had gotten it all wrong since the people of Norvrandt saw Light as destructive and Dark as peaceful.