Enrage timer raid design is causing all the problems

[Commander_Justitia]

It makes the DPS role entirely irrelevant. While yes, people will still want faster kills. You don't actually need them anymore. Therefore, you have one role that actually serves zero necessity, which is bad design.

Even if the fight would have a low enrage timer, you can still force dps player to be in the team by introducing the right mechanics. A7s (rolespecific jails) or A13s (time gates) as examples. This problem of only tank/healer parties is not really big.

We also have a duty timer so 24h battles like in ff11 aren't possible.

Just dealing damage by doing your rotation correctly is somewhat of a skill but having a few deaths shouldn't make it impossible to clear it imo. Would be better if there is a way to recover the fight. We don't really have any use of cc either in savage, it's just focused so much on dmg. 24man and BA are like what savage should be....

[ForteNightshade]

Even if the fight would have a low enrage timer, you can still force dps player to be in the team by introducing the right mechanics. A7s (rolespecific jails) or A13s (time gates) as examples. This problem of only tank/healer parties is not really big.

We also have a duty timer so 24h battles like in ff11 aren't possible.

Just dealing damage by doing your rotation correctly is somewhat of a skill but having a few deaths shouldn't make it impossible to clear it imo. Would be better if there is a way to recover the fight. We don't really have any use of cc either in savage, it's just focused so much on dmg. 24man and BA are like what savage should be....

Except a few deaths doesn't make any fight impossible unless you're doing it week 1. And the reason for that is you're tackling Savage at the lowest possible ilvl. You can have people die in Titan now and still make the enrage without much of an issue provided you're decent players. BA has enrages, you just don't often them because it's very generous or one mistakes wipes too much of the group. I loved BA, personally, but you weren't recovering much if someone stacked the meteor and wiped out two whole alliances. At that point, the run was usually over.

So it boils down to enrages, near constant insta-wipe mechanics or making every fight have very harsh DPS checks to ensure you actually need raw damage. Ultimately, they all lead down the same road.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

Just dealing damage by doing your rotation correctly is somewhat of a skill but having a few deaths shouldn't make it impossible to clear it imo. Would be better if there is a way to recover the fight. We don't really have any use of cc either in savage, it's just focused so much on dmg. 24man and BA are like what savage should be....

Well, I don't know about BA but there are also DPS-checks and Enrages in 24man. The first boss at Dun Scaith actually had a time limit/enrage as after some time all quarters are filled with no safe zone left, wiping the floor. And the Adds at Thundergod Cid in Orbonne were nearly impossible to kill in time if you had some dead people at this stage, especially in the first weeks after release. I can't remember how much times we wiped in Orbonne just because of the DPS-check at Cid alone.

[Enla]

Well, I don't know about BA but there are also DPS-checks and Enrages in 24man. The first boss at Dun Scaith actually had a time limit/enrage as after some time all quarters are filled with no safe zone left, wiping the floor. And the Adds at Thundergod Cid in Orbonne were nearly impossible to kill in time if you had some dead people at this stage, especially in the first weeks after release. I can't remember how much times we wiped in Orbonne just because of the DPS-check at Cid alone.

Or the ice crystal phase, if by some miracle your pug party happened to pass all the other obstacles to get to the homestretch of the fight. Week 1: Thundergod Cid still gives me nightmares to this day.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

Or the ice crystal phase, if by some miracle your pug party happened to pass all the other obstacles to get to the homestretch of the fight. Week 1: Thundergod Cid still gives me nightmares to this day.

There was also a DPS (and healer)-check at Ultima on the elevator-plattform, now that I think about it. But they usually don't fail unless most of the party doesn't know that there actually is one to begin with.

[Metalwrath]

I honestly dont consider enrage timers to be the cause of all problems.Plenty of raid groups have always gone for the highest dps to deal with mechanics for less amount of time.The problem lies within the lack of viable strategies with different jobs for end game content.