Enrage timer raid design is causing all the problems

[tikiwiki]

Well if I remember correctly, when design raids SE doesn't even consider Healer DPS as a factor and Tank DPS is a minimum.

They have said that but it clearly isnt the case anymore at min ilvl titan you would never clear without healer dps

[Selova]

snip.

No one is saying that they want this game to turn into WoW, how about you dial back a bit on the dramatic knee-jerk responses. He was comparing raid mechanics.
You can say what you want about WoW, but their raids are top notch and miles ahead design wise over the raids in FFXIV. The OP is right about nearly every fight being too enraged focused around dps instead of interesting mechanics that rely on more than just pushing your groups damage. Its been the design philosophy for every single boss in this game and I honestly believe they need to change it up.

[TaiyouSeishin]

WoW started failing for a number of reasons. One of them started when they starting worrying about "cookie-cutter" optimal specs. (Or some would call it meta) which is dumb, as something will always be the best (highest dps) even WoW had them, but people were not excluded because of a "meta" you couldn't be picky or choosy.

WoW only had a few missteps with its raid design, but otherwise was well thought out and made with a certain degree of care. The reason for this honestly is because rotations for most classes, while can be busy, was more straight forward, so the skill was in dealing with the mechanics, ensuring your dps uptime both physically and your DoTs, tanks managing aggro and boss/add positioning. Healers had to synergize with each other to keep people alive (also a person being able to solo heal in some fights was AMAZING). No one cared about a tanks or healers dps, there was plenty to heal, and any down time you were conserving mana. Tanks had other concerns but they often did some semblance of dps (dps = aggro).

Do i want ff14 to be WoW? No, i dont play ff14 for its raids anyway, if i go with friends....cool... if not... meh, im here for friends...and some pvp >.> i left my more hardcore raiding behind in WoW. but if ff14 DID take some pages out of WoWs book.... when it comes to raid design, id probably be more serious about going to do them.

[Typhoria]

As much as I prefer WoW raiding, the FF14 environment will never be the same. There is just very little wiggle room that can be applied to encounter design, due to the 8 player restriction. For starters, you can't have at least 1 of every DPS/Healer, so it's harder to carve out a niche role when they are all expected to perform at a certain level.

[ValkyrieL]

The reason people fail DPS check in ES2 is because they fk# up the mechanics, either they die or get damaged DOWN, this is very detrimental.

[KageTokage]

I'm curious as to how tight the ES4 DPS check is vs. ES3 because I'm having doubts that the rampant exclusion of "non-meta" classes like NIN and DNC in PF groups is really that necessary.

[ForteNightshade]

The biggest DPS problem was Alexander 3. HW's raid design was so tight that it nearly destroyed the FFXIV raiding community. Halicarnassus wasn't nearly as bad as Gordian and Midan. That said, E2S' DPS check is legitimately overtuned right now and needs to be brought down. Not much, but a bit. The design is fine, the health is not..

The DPS check is fine. Stop getting hit by the zubats. That damage down is 50% for every stack. It essentially gives you Brick of Death for thirty seconds.

I'm curious as to how tight the ES4 DPS check is vs. ES3 because I'm having doubts that the rampant exclusion of "non-meta" classes like NIN and DNC in PF groups is really that necessary.

Titan's DPS requirement is roughly 76,000. About 5,000 above Leviathan. People excluding Ninja or Dancer are, bluntly stated, morons. They're looking at their parse in-game and thinking that's the actual damage both jobs contribute in lieu of how FFlogs now prioritizes rDPS. Dancer, for example, is nearly dead even with Bard.

What I find ironic is if you were going to lock out jobs based on low DPS. You would be better off saving a spot for Monk and Black Mage. Monk utterly demolishes Samurai and Ninja. And Black Mage does the same against Red Mage and Summoner. As noted above, Dancer barely trails even Machinist. Meanwhile, Black Mage and Monk are upwards of 1,000 higher than their counterparts; Dragoon notwithstanding.

[TaiyouSeishin]

I'm curious as to how tight the ES4 DPS check is vs. ES3 because I'm having doubts that the rampant exclusion of "non-meta" classes like NIN and DNC in PF groups is really that necessary.

Its not, all classes should be able to pull the numbers required to get through, but a ninja has to WEAVE through all the traffic in Clip city, so if they make a wrong turn and/or die.... they already are weak in terms of usefullness rn, will be even worse if they die or fudge the rotation.

DNC honestly seems to do well (tho i often think they need a small buff somehow, make procs happen a little more often for instance)

[Shurrikhan]

All the problems, like

1. People not being allowed to run about like headless chickens during mechanics.
2. Not being able to stack all tanks and healers to cheese the fights, albeit at twice the kill time or slower.
3. Actually caring about playing their job well, instead of just... not wiping.
4. There being momentum and excitement in a fight through optimization, rather than just variance between complete allowance of blunders and less blundering permitted.
5. Not being permitted to afk through a fight or duo what should be 8-man content.

Just look at them! The horror!

[Endariel]

Back in my days of raiding it was normal to be fighting the first boss over and over until you had the gear instead of expecting all 4 fights to be cleared in the first week in 450 gear.

Yes and no.
Accessories have insignificant impact on dps, and it won't help you to clear e2s if you hit the enrage in e1s.
And yet, if you managed to clear e2s.m, with slightly more effort e3s is doable.

All I'm saying is that the gap is either too small or too big to justify the need of farming the same boss over and over to clear the next one