Jobs you would like to see fundamentally changed?

[Jasmyne]

Are there any jobs out there that you would like to see completely revamped? Shout out some ideas, I'm super curious to see what you all have in mind.

I would love to see Red Mage fully turned into a pure melee battlemage class, with a hybrid of magically buffed physical dps and black mage style rotations. En-fire/elemental type spells to buff their weapons, and maybe buffing teammates weapons as well for support. Their (current) melee combo would be replaced with a powerful long range mage combo to help with reminding people of their mage-ness and would be perfect for mechanics that require you to run away from the boss. I think completely swapping the way Red mage is played would make it much more engaging, incredibly unique (for a caster) and I think it would make more sense with its lore as well.

And maybe a little more controversial idea would be regarding Dancer and Bard. I say delete them entirely from ranged DPS and replace bard with Ranger, create a new "support" role that each job can activate on/off. Off would be solo play and allow for personal buffs and personal dps, ON would be group play that would disable dps and be pure support. Dancer would be healing and dps buffs (determination/spellspeed/sks), bard could be movement and dps buffs (crit/dh/movement speed). If any of you remember back in FF11 days, bard actually was pure support and I loved it.

I didn't really think about it much so the idea is probably real cheeky and stupid, but hey it's fun to think about!

[HumanNinjaToo]

Are there any jobs out there that you would like to see completely revamped? Shout out some ideas, I'm super curious to see what you all have in mind.

I would love to see Red Mage fully turned into a pure melee battlemage class, with a hybrid of magically buffed physical dps and black mage style rotations. En-fire/elemental type spells to buff their weapons, and maybe buffing teammates weapons as well for support.

This seems like a completely oxymoronic idea, lol, a "pure hybrid". But I get what you mean.

I would like to see the dark knight be an actual dark knight. So far what I am seeing is just another tank. I think it should be a DPS that relies on self-sacrifice to dish out mega damage! Maybe in a perfect world... I won't get my hopes hope.

[MrKusakabe]

FFXIV's interpreation of the Red Mage is absolutely fantastic the way it is. I also do not know why you would want it to be mostly a melee profession, and how that would fit the lore (or maybe I am missing something very fundamentally?).

For another thread I checked the numbers and created a pie-chart, and as far as I remember it was 29% rapier melee fight and 71% ranged magic in potency (Verholy and Verflare only counted once in that value and only Enchanted melee versions) (I am on my tablet, not my PC)- This makes sense for a Red Mage, not what you came up with. Lore-wise, Red Mages utilize Black and White magic, not focussed on Black Magic as you suggested (again, did I miss something?)

I really don't see why that would be fun to play by taking away the obvious White magic part (heals and resurrection included) and turn it into some weird...I can't even a name for that bastardization...


Sincerely,

[Vidu]

Non.

Adding new jobs that play differently from what we have now - sure, lets add them!
But changing something thats already working as it is just to give a different interpretation of said job seems like throwing away a lot of work and potentially job-concepts that people like. Small adjustments to jobs need to happen, sure - but fundamentally changing them? No, thanks.

[Jasmyne]

This seems like a completely oxymoronic idea, lol, a "pure hybrid". But I get what you mean.

I would like to see the dark knight be an actual dark knight. So far what I am seeing is just another tank. I think it should be a DPS that relies on self-sacrifice to dish out mega damage! Maybe in a perfect world... I won't get my hopes hope.

Oh yah true that's kinda dumb, but I like your idea. Maybe if they kept it a tank it would gain more defenses as its health decreases, which would be scary for a healer but would require people to work around the diversity of different classes in the group and I really like that concept. The only problem I see with that is it would make shields even more valuable, and the whole scholar/ast meta would be even more important.

But changing drk into a DPS? That would be so cool, it would possibly share dps heavy armor with dragoon since drg seems so lonely there with its armor sets. I genuinely believe we have way too many tanks that do almost the exact same thing so that would be a really neat and unexpected change.

[wereotter]

FFXIV's interpreation of the Red Mage is absolutely fantastic the way it is. I also do not know why you would want it to be mostly a melee profession, and how that would fit the lore (or maybe I am missing something very fundamentally?).

The lore part of red mage relates back a lot to how each person played the job in previous games. So for me, for example, I think back to the original FF1 and looked at red mage as a physical attacking job first and a backup caster. Additionally I think about how red mages in that game had the ability to equip swords that exploited the weaknesses of certain enemy types. Fast forward to later games and I kind of played red mage the same way. Primarily a physical attacking job and a backup caster when needed, as such I classified character like Terra and Celes from FFVI initially into the red mage camp.

So when red mage was announced, I had anticipated a job that was rapier first and caster when you needed to go ranged, or that would have instant cast spells as part of the rotation. I don't hate how it is now, but it does feel backwards of what I expected with it now being caster first and melee second. I don't hate it, but if it were reversed into a melee job, I also wouldn't be upset (also ninja needs a job to share gear with)

Which speaking of ninja.... this job has lost its identity and needs a full overhaul. I'm not sure exactly how it will fill the role, but it's too complex to play for the output you get from its DPS, and it's only utility nowadays is trick attack, and while it can be very strong, relies on your party working around it in order to be most effective, making it even worse for random groups.

[Jasmyne]

FFXIV's interpreation of the Red Mage is absolutely fantastic the way it is. I also do not know why you would want it to be mostly a melee profession, and how that would fit the lore (or maybe I am missing something very fundamentally?).

For another thread I checked the numbers and created a pie-chart, and as far as I remember it was 29% rapier melee fight and 71% ranged magic in potency (Verholy and Verflare only counted once in that value and only Enchanted melee versions) (I am on my tablet, not my PC)- This makes sense for a Red Mage, not what you came up with. Lore-wise, Red Mages utilize Black and White magic, not focussed on Black Magic as you suggested (again, did I miss something?)

I really don't see why that would be fun to play by taking away the obvious White magic part (heals and resurrection included) and turn it into some weird...I can't even a name for that bastardization...


Sincerely,

I don't think I ever said to remove white magic? What I did say was have a hybrid of melee and "black mage" rotation. Black mage as in the class, not a black magic rotation. Your interpretation of what I said is very strange and I genuinely have no idea how to respond to it.

Historically in the final fantasy games Redmages were very proficient with melee weapons, and if you look back to FF11 they used magic to buff melee weapons to do more damage. A lot of what red mage has been always heavily involved melee. You don't have to take it so personally though, obviously it's not something that they will implement, the plan is to just discuss job changes with with little constraints. If you don't like it then you don't like it, enjoy your red mage.

[Rufalus]

Rdm is the only job I'd want overhauled because it's dangerously boring. Dualcast and mana balance gauge are good concepts, I just don't like that the white spells are clones of the black spells. To be an interesting job I'd want the two sides of the job to be distinct in their potencies and effect. Veraero for example could be a DoT which increases white mana gauge a little pet tick. If the white and black were not clone buttons of each other, it can be more interesting to achieve a balance between them and we'd have a more diverse selection of moves.

[HumanNinjaToo]

Oh yah true that's kinda dumb, but I like your idea. Maybe if they kept it a tank it would gain more defenses as its health decreases, which would be scary for a healer but would require people to work around the diversity of different classes in the group and I really like that concept. The only problem I see with that is it would make shields even more valuable, and the whole scholar/ast meta would be even more important.

But changing drk into a DPS? That would be so cool, it would possibly share dps heavy armor with dragoon since drg seems so lonely there with its armor sets. I genuinely believe we have way too many tanks that do almost the exact same thing so that would be a really neat and unexpected change.

I hope you didn't interpret me saying your idea was dumb, sorry if that's how it came across. I just meant the term 'pure hybrid' because the words counteract each other linguistically. I am of the mind, however, that a red mage relies on black and white magic, maybe more so on physical damage like you mentioned. But buffing other's weapons seems out of sync with my own view on what a red mages role is. I would like to see them be able exploit enemy-type weaknesses though (i.e. extra damage versus beast type or flying type with the right self-buff). IDK, it seems a bit convoluted when I think about it...

[ArcaneCarbuncle]

On the Topic itself: I don't think any jobs need to be changed, though I guess for some Jobs a bit of cleanup/streamlining in terms of Identity wouldn't hurt.

On the whole RDM thing going on:
I'd argue that outside of FFXI (which took its fair share of liberties when it came to class identity), RDM has never had much of a melee focus.
In fact, objectively, It was meant to be caster first and melee second ever since the addition of Dualcast - a spellcasting ability - in FFV, while it's entire physical prowess stayed limited to using the attack command.
The Job people seem to want RDM to be changed to has had many a name, Spellfencer/Spellblade/Mystic Knight being some of them.
I'd say rather than asking for RDM to be changed, ask for a Job along those lines to be added to the game.