*Spoilers* Do we have "Creation Magic?"

[Edax]

Despite the quest in which we are informed that we have no potential for creation (presumably because of our comparatively diminutive aether reserves), I have to wonder if we might actually be capable of creation magics. Take, for example, the relative ease with which we conjure forth primals in the First, or the creation of Ardbert's axe in the final confrontation with Emet Selch at the end of SHB's main story. We literally shape aether into a physical and concrete creature or item with only our limited reserve of aether to prevent it from becoming truly real and permanent.

In Amaurot the shades inform us that creation magic is as natural as breathing, and the WOL certainly seems to put little thought into the mechanics of what they are doing when they form such creations. While the primals may merit a dismissal as a form of "summoning," Ardbert's axe is decidedly not summoned, and retains form and mass for a while after we use it. Doesn't this imply that we have, to some degree, manifested creation magic as described by the shades of Amaurot and Emet-Selch?
I'm genuinely curious about what others think of this, please, what are your thoughts?

I'll ask the fundamental question: If we are unable to use an ability, then what does it matter if we possess the ability?

[Kith_Whulfth]

I'll ask the fundamental question: If we are unable to use an ability, then what does it matter if we possess the ability?

I'll point out that during one of the side quests we were given a concept template for robes and a few lightning crystals (or clusters, I don't recall which) and our only issue with making the robes was that we didn't know how to use the template and creation magic. It would seem that while our personal capacity for aether is insufficient, a simple handful of crystals is supposedly enough to compensate. In fact, the fact that summoning is described by the ascians as a form of creation magic, which we witness being used in the Akadaemia Anyder final boss cutscene.

So, if we do possess the ability, we might actually be able to use it.

Heck, given the animations for the crafting classes, we might already be using a corrupted or diluted form of creation magic already, but that could just be due to game mechanics and limitations in the game engine.

[Edax]

I'll point out that during one of the side quests we were given a concept template for robes and a few lightning crystals (or clusters, I don't recall which) and our only issue with making the robes was that we didn't know how to use the template and creation magic. It would seem that while our personal capacity for aether is insufficient, a simple handful of crystals is supposedly enough to compensate. In fact, the fact that summoning is described by the ascians as a form of creation magic, which we witness being used in the Akadaemia Anyder final boss cutscene.

So, if we do possess the ability, we might actually be able to use it.

But notably the Ancient shade didn't make the robe for us. Perhaps it was incapable due to the nature of being a reflection. As for Akadaemia Anyder, I'm not sure if what is happening in that duty is even "real". Is the boss actually being summoned? If it is a recreation of events, when what causes that boss to appear? What powers it?

Heck, given the animations for the crafting classes, we might already be using a corrupted or diluted form of creation magic already, but that could just be due to game mechanics and limitations in the game engine.

I think it's the latter because there's no fundamental explanation why grilling a hot dog requires aether from fire crystals when a plain heat source should be able to suffice.

[Jonnycbad]

As for Akadaemia Anyder, I'm not sure if what is happening in that duty is even "real". Is the boss actually being summoned? If it is a recreation of events, when what causes that boss to appear? What powers it?

It's a recreation of events. Basically the whole city is one giant primal. Think of Dream Zanarkand. Its tangible, but its form is willed into existence by energy dreams and prayer. Just like Zanarkand, when its summoner(s) die, it too will fade...

[Edax]

It's a recreation of events. Basically the whole city is one giant primal. Think of Dream Zanarkand. Its tangible, but its form is willed into existence by energy dreams and prayer. Just like Zanarkand, when its summoner(s) die, it too will fade...

So what is actually creating Quetzalcoatl? Emet? The Ancient Shade that died? Amaurot?

[Kith_Whulfth]

So what is actually creating Quetzalcoatl? Emet? The Ancient Shade that died? Amaurot?

I believe that Emet Selch imbuned the shades with just enough "self" to function as the actual Amaurotine citizens without actually being "alive." Therefore, the shade tried to summon a "guardian" using the same techniques that an actual scholar from the Akadaemia might. That being said, the Quetzalcoatl we fought was a far cry from the Primals that we've seen before in recent expansions, and this might be due to the shade lacking the aether of an actual living being, let alone that of a true Ancient. In other words, Emet Selch's enchantment is technically an act of creation magic (if incomplete or even half-hearted) and therefore the shade would technically have enough free will and aether to perform a somewhat lesser summoning.

I'll even go so far as to point out that Quetzalcoatl as we faced in the dungeon is far more potent than Ifrit when faced unsync'd on hard mode, meaning it's actually quite a potent creation when compared to the summoned Primals we face in ARR. After all, the shade we meet in the story (whose name eludes me right now) tells us that Emet Selch created them to give the illusion of the city as he remembered it. Emet Selch even went so far as to give these shades personalities and the ability to argue with each other without Emet Selch being there to see it. The shades are not truly alive, but they may as well be, and therefore have the force of will necessary to create or summon just as the beast tribes of the Source.

[YianKutku]

I believe that Emet Selch imbuned the shades with just enough "self" to function as the actual Amaurotine citizens without actually being "alive." Therefore, the shade tried to summon a "guardian" using the same techniques that an actual scholar from the Akadaemia might. That being said, the Quetzalcoatl we fought was a far cry from the Primals that we've seen before in recent expansions, and this might be due to the shade lacking the aether of an actual living being, let alone that of a true Ancient. In other words, Emet Selch's enchantment is technically an act of creation magic (if incomplete or even half-hearted) and therefore the shade would technically have enough free will and aether to perform a somewhat lesser summoning.

I'll even go so far as to point out that Quetzalcoatl as we faced in the dungeon is far more potent than Ifrit when faced unsync'd on hard mode, meaning it's actually quite a potent creation when compared to the summoned Primals we face in ARR. After all, the shade we meet in the story (whose name eludes me right now) tells us that Emet Selch created them to give the illusion of the city as he remembered it. Emet Selch even went so far as to give these shades personalities and the ability to argue with each other without Emet Selch being there to see it. The shades are not truly alive, but they may as well be, and therefore have the force of will necessary to create or summon just as the beast tribes of the Source.

Then again, the only reason that shade of an Amaurotine tried to summon Quetzalcoatl was because they were trying to contain the chaos from all the experimental subjects being freed by Archaeotania. Which, if we follow this logic, was also created by Emet-Selch.

So Emet-Selch created the Akademia Anyder, populated it with Amaurotine researchers, populated it with dangerous experimental subjects, included a phantomological monster from "over the seas" that was smart enough to escape and cause a mass breakout, and allowed the simulacra of Amaurotines to panic and run away and die, while the simulacrum of Archaeotania could escape into the greater Tempest and terrorize the local Ondo.

It's an alarmingly long way to go for verisimilitude, I think.

[Alleo]

I'll point out that during one of the side quests we were given a concept template for robes and a few lightning crystals (or clusters, I don't recall which) and our only issue with making the robes was that we didn't know how to use the template and creation magic. It would seem that while our personal capacity for aether is insufficient, a simple handful of crystals is supposedly enough to compensate. In fact, the fact that summoning is described by the ascians as a form of creation magic, which we witness being used in the Akadaemia Anyder final boss cutscene.

So, if we do possess the ability, we might actually be able to use it.

Heck, given the animations for the crafting classes, we might already be using a corrupted or diluted form of creation magic already, but that could just be due to game mechanics and limitations in the game engine.

At the same time that NPC (at least in German) states quite clearly that he has never seen someone with such low amount of that magic, even in children. So I guess we cant really use the real one. Also do we know if that crafting is not just something everyone can do? In the end Hydealyn seemingly never took away abilities, she just split them thus made them less powerful. So it makes sense that everyone that once was an Ancient one has the power still in them but weak enough to not be able to do something big with it.

Also even beast tribes can summon primals with enough crystals. So seemingly the whole difference is just the amount of crystals someone needs to do stuff. Ysayle for example only needed her own crystal do transform, while the tribes need more.