DRK do you wish you get Stalwart Soul at LV45 like the rest of the tanks?

[cactuarzzzz]

Been thinking for a while now. Would it be better to have a AOE Combo that doesn't use MP like the other tanks at LV45 instead of Flood of Darkness that eat too much MP?

[Absimiliard]

Yes. Yes it would. Flood of Darkness simply is not an acceptable substitute for having the second step of our AoE combo that early. We should really have both. At least then we could regen MP on AoE pulls and thus manage to make liberal use of Flood of Darkness. Still wouldn't make our low level AoE as strong as the others, but it would be a lot better.

[Valic]

I think it should be available within an earlier range but maybe not that early.

[Izsha]

The other tabks dont get resources from tgeir 2nd combo until the 70s. War gets gauge as a trait in the 70s when drk gets their mp gain combo.

No drk doesnt need mp at 45 off a combo unless you also give gauge etc to the other tabks at the same level.

[Absimiliard]

The other tabks dont get resources from tgeir 2nd combo until the 70s. War gets gauge as a trait in the 70s when drk gets their mp gain combo.

No drk doesnt need mp at 45 off a combo unless you also give gauge etc to the other tabks at the same level.

Warrior does not have to burn gauge to do an acceptable level of damage at low level. That is a strawman argument.

The other tanks also don't have to burn such a massive quantity of MP to get anything done. DRK is currently the weakest tank in any content below 70 by a pretty wide margin. From 1-69 it has the lowest damage output, the weakest mitigation, and the fewest utility tools available.

[Izsha]

Straw man? Try again. Drks always focus on the lack of resource gain and combo damage yet entirely ignore all the other pieces of their aoe that has no equivalent on other tanks while leveling.

War: 2 step combo. 130+200. 165 avg. 1 aoe gauge gcd/min (infuriate)
Drk: 1 step. 150. 150 avg + flood+AD+Salted
Pld: 2 step. 150+220. 185 avg+ scorn
Gun: 2 step. 150+250. 200 avg.

Gun. Catridge aoe 72.
Pld. Mp aoe 72
War. Gauge on combo 74
Drk. 2nd combo(mp) 72

Literally no tank gets BOTH resources from aoe AND and aoe to spend that resource on until 72+. Plds get mp to....cast cures? Gun has cartiges but only single target spending option. Drk has the lowest gcd average but the most powerful ogcd that is gained at all times via ticks (pulling, out of combat etc), and still gained with other actions (C&S, blood weapon, etc) which evens it out with the lower gcd potency vs other tanks who have none of that. And lets not forget their 2 other aoes which gun and war have nothing to compare and only scorn on pld.

No one gets their full aoe potential until 72/74. Before that drk does similar damage to the other tanks with a gcd and powerful ogcd while other tanks do it with stronger gcds.

Is it boring to spam 1 gcd forever? Sure. Is it weaker? Nope. Flood (pre trait) does the same damage as the best tanks GCD action as an ogcd and has ways to slowly get that resource well before 72 in addition to 2 other ogcd aoes. It just goes into overdrive at 72.

Drk is fine at aoe. They have a low gcd potency but the most ogcd potency. Other 3 just have gcds and scorn.

[Absimiliard]

Snip

So let me get this straight. It's perfectly fine for DRK to mash a single button along with the occasional oGCD on trash pulls for the vast majority of its leveling experience while simultaneously being weaker defensively than the other tanks until it finally gets TBN. Also, your own numbers indicate that DRK has slightly less AoE DPS. It doesn't get Salted Earth for quite a while either.

Oh, and let's consider this for a moment: Abyssal Drain and Salted Earth are tied to cooldowns. Flood of Darkness/Shadow, meanwhile, eats enough MP that you probably aren't going to get to use it much during each individual pull. Even pulling wall to wall, its limited number of uses coupled with how long trash pulls typically take to AoE down in lower level dungeons ultimately results in DRK being vastly outstripped in its contribution to AoE damage by the other tanks. The numbers may appear similar up front, but that changes rather swiftly once gameplay comes into it. Of course, this is only true while leveling. DRK at high level actually has some very powerful AoE through its cooldowns and enhanced oGCDs.

[Izsha]

So let me get this straight. It's perfectly fine for DRK to mash a single button along with the occasional oGCD on trash pulls for the vast majority of its leveling experience while simultaneously being weaker defensively than the other tanks until it finally gets TBN. Also, your own numbers indicate that DRK has slightly less AoE DPS. It doesn't get Salted Earth for quite a while either.

Moving goalposts much? You said aoe was weaker. I pointed out that it wasnt. Now you are talking about boring (which i already pointed out before you anyway) and trash pull defenses.

I did not make a statement on that. Just responded to your innacurate claim that drk needs stalwart soul to do more aoe damage because it would actually jump drk WAY up in aoe damage pre 70 when it was already fine there due to everything i pointed out above.

So dont putt words in my mouth. I never made any claim beyond what i said and one of those is agreeing with you. 1 gcd is boring, but that doesnt make it weak.

[Absimiliard]

Moving goalposts much? You said aoe was weaker. I pointed out that it wasnt. Now you are talking about boring (which i already pointed out before you anyway) and trash pull defenses.

I did not make a statement on that. Just responded to your innacurate claim that drk needs stalwart soul to do more aoe damage because it would actually jump drk WAY up in aoe damage pre 70 when it was already fine there due to everything i pointed out above.

So dont putt words in my mouth. I never made any claim beyond what i said and one of those is agreeing with you. 1 gcd is boring, but that doesnt make it weak.

No one put words in your mouth. Keep the conversation civil. I asserted that you are mistaken. The numbers corroborate the assertion that you are mistaken, though I have already conceded that the difference isn't that large. The mention of its weaker defensives is a secondary argument relating to this fact by way of implying that DRK should be compensated for this. If it is going to have marginally weaker AoE than the other tanks whilst leveling, then it should not have considerably weaker defenses while leveling. Simple logic.

The issue of balance caused by introducing Stalwart Soul earlier could be addressed by either removing the MP regen from it or making Flood of Darkness weaker. They could then introduce a trait that would restore Flood of Darkness/Shadow to its original full strength when appropriate.

[Izsha]

If you want to male claims about dps then use numbers. No one in thisnthread has actually shown any data to support the base claim that drk is bad at aoe damage vs other tanks.

If you use every action and ability on CD that is an aoe on drk pre 70 you end up with 93 potency per second.

Gcd 150/2.5. 60pps
Passive mp regen tics (15tics. 250pot) 16.66pps
CS 600mp/min 5.55pps
Salted 900pot/90sec. 10pps
AD 200ppt/min. 3.33 pps.
BW mp 200pot/min. 4.166pps
Bw blood. 1 quietus/min. 60pot over 150 gcd. 1pps

Total: 84.88 pps.
Darkside bonus 10%. 93.37pps.

War: same deal.
Gcd combo: 66pps
Infuriate. 1pps (becomes 1.416pps for decimate lv 60)
Total: 67pps (67.41 at 60)
Eye buff 10%. 73.7 pps (74.1 at 60)

Zerk is a little wierd because it depends on what gcds you use and crit gear, but if you just assume you are using everything on cd and it roughly doubles damage its a flat boost of 22.22% overall.
Zerk estimate 90.07pps (90.63pps at 60)

Wow. Much difference. Drk so gimp. War 90 vs drk 93 which is about the difference of using better gcds during zerk. If you want to look at other tanks rotations be my guest but ive made my point. Tank dps is VERY balanced at all stages right now. Single target. Aoe. While leveling. At cap. This is the most balanced offensive state tanks have ever been in.

The mp gain of 2nd combo alone is a 12 pps gain which is utterly massive when everones in the low 90s.

If you dont like the way a job feels to play, by all means dislike it. But dont just make wild unsubstantiated claims of imbalance balance because youre bored in a lv 55 dungeon on drk. This is not the 1st thread that just blindly claims drk aoe damage is sub par and needs mega buffing at low levels.

Drk has more aoe actions and ogcds to manage at low levels and an mp gauge to manage. I suspect that is why they limited it to 1 aoe gcd. Just look at the list of potencies. War has 2 gcds, zerk, infuriate and the gcd you get from infuriate. Thats it. Thats their dungeon play. Drk has 1 gcd and many ogcds, ground effect, etc to manage. So you want to talk about boring? Every tank is boring at low levels. Thats what we get with ability crunches.

Tldr: drk damage is perfectly fine. Every tank is slow and boring in low level dungeons.

If youre issue is ACTUALLY about squishynes. Then address that. 1 more gcd to push does jack for how much damage you take.