RDM the unwelcome DPS :(

[Aomine1992]

As much as I QQ about SMN, RDM is pretty bad as far as dps wise. Why embolden is still just a physical things is beyond me lol, also they could use a bump up in some potencies. Honestly the caster role in general is just way to imbalanced because of the trash raise ability that should be a role ability or removed from the casters. RDM and SMN pay the price for a utility that goes unused outside of first day prog.

Embolden isn’t that good and neither is aetherpact so SE needs to take a round turn before soon enough people only want BLM.

[Kejara]

I am considering switching jobs because of this notion that a RDM is "progression" job. No job should only be useful during a specific part of the raiding cycle. Savage in 5.0 makes matters even worse with stiff DPS checks in i450-ish gear. Raise is practically useless in a party containing a RDM because if the already lower DPS RDM is forced to raise, then their pDPS becomes lower and so does the pDPS of the recently deceased member that was perhaps making up for the lacking pDPS of the RDM.

Take E2S for example: It requires approximately 71k DPS to beat the enrage mechanic. If we assume we have competent healers/tanks as it pertains to DPS, then we can say that each tank does ~7k DPS and each healer does ~6k DPS. That means healers and tanks contribute approximately ~26k DPS and that number is generous. That leaves 46k DPS from the 4 DPS jobs. Each DPS job must then bring approximately ~11.5K DPS. For a RDM to bring this level of DPS in i450-ish gear requires near perfect execution on the part of the RDM seeing as how an i450 penta-melded RDM, according to the relative damage calculator, brings a average theoretical DPS of around 12K, assuming flawlessly executed rotations, before party buffs. What this means is that parties that choose to take a RDM with them must bring along meta-DPS jobs if they wish to utilize the RDM's raise to make up for the deficit that comes not only from the weakness of the recently deceased but also from the already low but now further decreased DPS of the RDM themselves due to the RDM losing damaging GCDs.

In short, the benefit of the RDM's raise is neutralized, as it pertains to actually clearing the Savage encounters, BECAUSE the group brought a RDM in the first place. Thus, in less than optimal DPS compositions, e.g., ones that aren't comprised of meta DPS and the RDM, savage encounters must be executed near flawlessly to meet the DPS barriers.

I'm not saying that groups with a RDM cannot clear savage because that is certainly not true and props to those of you that do. I'm simply saying that I understand the mentality of those that would exclude us. After all, why would you bring one when the supposed benefit of doing so is not likely to be realized when clearing savage content?

RDM needs either potency increases to increase their pDPS or changes to the amount rDPS they contribute so that they are an attractive option to bring on savage encounters, regardless of the status of the encounter (progression, clear, farm).

I apologize in advance if this post comes across as incoherent rambling.

[Tulzscha]

In all honesty our instant Rez doesn’t warrant low dps.

It’s a flawed support. Effectively what is above is true. The dps checks are so tight that if ur forced to raise enough for a RDM to be needed, u are going to wipe due to enrage anyway.

Holy crap this is so true, I never looked at it that way. Well now that I’m thinking about it, it helps you see more of the fight and progress even if you do end up wiping. Once you start getting to enrage consistently it has very narrow usability. I kinda wish it was an optional thing we could trade in for more deeps when it’s no longer needed, without switching jobs.

[BarretOblivion]

Take E2S for example: It requires approximately 71k DPS to beat the enrage mechanic. If we assume we have competent healers/tanks as it pertains to DPS, then we can say that each tank does ~7k DPS and each healer does ~6k DPS. That means healers and tanks contribute approximately ~26k DPS and that number is generous. That leaves 46k DPS from the 4 DPS jobs. Each DPS job must then bring approximately ~11.5K DPS. For a RDM to bring this level of DPS in i450-ish gear requires near perfect execution on the part of the RDM seeing as how an i450 penta-melded RDM, according to the relative damage calculator, brings a average theoretical DPS of around 12K, assuming flawlessly executed rotations, before party buffs. What this means is that parties that choose to take a RDM with them must bring along meta-DPS jobs if they wish to utilize the RDM's raise to make up for the deficit that comes not only from the weakness of the recently deceased but also from the already low but now further decreased DPS of the RDM themselves due to the RDM losing damaging GCDs.

In short, the benefit of the RDM's raise is neutralized, as it pertains to actually clearing the Savage encounters, BECAUSE the group brought a RDM in the first place. Thus, in less than optimal DPS compositions, e.g., ones that aren't comprised of meta DPS and the RDM, savage encounters must be executed near flawlessly to meet the DPS barriers.

I'm not saying that groups with a RDM cannot clear savage because that is certainly not true and props to those of you that do. I'm simply saying that I understand the mentality of those that would exclude us. After all, why would you bring one when the supposed benefit of doing so is not likely to be realized when clearing savage content?

RDM needs either potency increases to increase their pDPS or changes to the amount rDPS they contribute so that they are an attractive option to bring on savage encounters, regardless of the status of the encounter (progression, clear, farm).

I apologize in advance if this post comes across as incoherent rambling.

This is a great point as to why RDM is bad. Its only useful for seeing more of the fight... after that point you should be swapping it out for another job. RDM should deal closer damage to that of SMN and also embloden needs a major buff. Remove the diminishing damage increase first. The physical change could be considered... but honestly that would likely only be increasing healer's DPS which SE would probably decrease the potency of the buff overall from 10% to 5% probably. ( I don't agree with the potency nerf)

[geekgirl101]

I just feel like SE has literally stabbed me in the back by making the only job I find playable absolutely poop. Really SE, I've tried other classes and I just can't get a feel for any of them because of overcomplicated and time orientated procs that if you miss one you mess your entire rotation. I loved RDM because it wasn't that complicated and it felt right for me and it did pretty good damage when you weren't spending all your time fast ressing, but so many PF raid groups are deliberately omitting RDM, SMN and NIN because their damage is now ridiculously low and they can't beat the enrage timers. I'm even being asked to play another job because RDM isn't wanted in raids anymore. This really bites SE, you've made this game unplayable for me.

[Connor]

I only have Red Mage at level 72 but I can see why so many would feel unhappy with it. They seem to vastly overestimate what Vercure/Verraise bring to the party, because as with all healing abilities the better your party, the less you have to use them. So, from my inexperienced point of view, they’re taxing Red Mage’s damage hard, but then giving it abilities it doesn’t really want to use to compensate.
It’s a bit confusing. I love Vercure and Verraise and I’d hate to see them go, but at the same Red Mage does feel like it’s being punished too hard for having a heal spell and Raise. I mean, if they don’t want to increase its personal DPS surely it should at least have some raid utility to make up for it? I know there’s Embolden, but that doesn’t seem to be enough in terms of raid buffs. They could at least give it like Verbrave or Verprotect to give it something to offer when nobody needs Raise. And Vercure seems like more of a solo’ing spell than anything, since it’s considered bad practice to use it outside of extremely urgent situations because naturally you should be using your gcd to deal damage. As I said I love using it, but at the same time whenever I do I have to think to myself ‘is this healer gonna get mad at me’ lol

[dinnertime]

Remember when people hyped how good Raise was as a utility and how busted RDM is for chain insta-raising, that some BLMs complained that they should have Raise too? Yeah, that aged like milk.

At this point I want Raise gone from RDM and SMN. It's nice to have but it's not worth keeping if they're going to keep both jobs doing mediocre damage because of it. It's so niche and finds little use after progression. Both of their party buffs are also pathetic.

The balancing for caster DPS is even worse now with BLM overshadowing the other two, and only because of Raise.

[Miziliti]

Rez mage is supposed to be a joke to RDM, but it's all that's left as advantage of RDM. In SB I was fine with being mobile and doing middle ground dps, but the current state of RDM is trash tier. It's just a disaster to think meme became reality.

[LeoLupinos]

The Devs need to balance RDM similar to PLD.
If PLD use their progression tool he will suffer DPS loss, because he could be using on a Damage skill that costs the same MP. And PLD is the second best damage from the 4 tanks, less than GNB.

RDM could have a skill that costs the same MP as a Ress. That way RDM could be with a similar DPS with SMN, because if he uses his progression tool he will suffer a DPS loss, and will stay with the DPS similar to what he is now. I say not better than SMN because RDM still has the mobility.

[Drayos]

I am considering switching jobs because of this notion that a RDM is "progression" job. No job should only be useful during a specific part of the raiding cycle. Savage in 5.0 makes matters even worse with stiff DPS checks in i450-ish gear. Raise is practically useless in a party containing a RDM because if the already lower DPS RDM is forced to raise, then their pDPS becomes lower and so does the pDPS of the recently deceased member that was perhaps making up for the lacking pDPS of the RDM.

Take E2S for example: It requires approximately 71k DPS to beat the enrage mechanic. If we assume we have competent healers/tanks as it pertains to DPS, then we can say that each tank does ~7k DPS and each healer does ~6k DPS. That means healers and tanks contribute approximately ~26k DPS and that number is generous. That leaves 46k DPS from the 4 DPS jobs. Each DPS job must then bring approximately ~11.5K DPS. For a RDM to bring this level of DPS in i450-ish gear requires near perfect execution on the part of the RDM seeing as how an i450 penta-melded RDM, according to the relative damage calculator, brings a average theoretical DPS of around 12K, assuming flawlessly executed rotations, before party buffs. What this means is that parties that choose to take a RDM with them must bring along meta-DPS jobs if they wish to utilize the RDM's raise to make up for the deficit that comes not only from the weakness of the recently deceased but also from the already low but now further decreased DPS of the RDM themselves due to the RDM losing damaging GCDs.

In short, the benefit of the RDM's raise is neutralized, as it pertains to actually clearing the Savage encounters, BECAUSE the group brought a RDM in the first place. Thus, in less than optimal DPS compositions, e.g., ones that aren't comprised of meta DPS and the RDM, savage encounters must be executed near flawlessly to meet the DPS barriers.

I'm not saying that groups with a RDM cannot clear savage because that is certainly not true and props to those of you that do. I'm simply saying that I understand the mentality of those that would exclude us. After all, why would you bring one when the supposed benefit of doing so is not likely to be realized when clearing savage content?

RDM needs either potency increases to increase their pDPS or changes to the amount rDPS they contribute so that they are an attractive option to bring on savage encounters, regardless of the status of the encounter (progression, clear, farm).

I apologize in advance if this post comes across as incoherent rambling.

Tbh I’ve considered moving job, no idea which way to go though haha. I’ve tried a few other jobs.

I got monk dragoon and machinist also to 80, and I got ninja summoner and bard to 72 haha

Was considering doing a SAM up, they’ve always looked pretty cool haha