RDM the unwelcome DPS :(

[geekgirl101]

I wouldnt say RDM is that high RDPS Wise, while Majority of its Utility kit is realistically around Supporting Progression

We only got 2 utility spells for crying out loud and casting them affects our damage since they consume our dualcast. If you had a BLM and RDM side by side and they did the same damage but the RDM had to keep ressing people or self-healing you would still have the BLM doing more damage than the RDM. That's not to say I want RDM to be doing the same as a BLM but gee, this expansion is gonna make me quit if RDM isn't gonna get any love soon and I'm quite frankly tired of the arguments where people are quite happy to worship BLM and snort at every other DPS jobs.

[wereotter]

imho

Put Verraise on a 30 sec CD with 2 Charges.

it still cant be used in emergency, it'll function the same through DF reguardless and Allows u to insta Rezz Two players During a Raid, but with this we can Lift the Taxation as it'll no longer be as vital as currently which reduces the fear it becomes Mandatory during progression raiding.

I've seen this suggested a few times, and I gotta say, I don't see how this changes things at all.... if you're in a raid and you both had the need and mana to raise three or more people at once, then the fight was a loss anyway because of enrage. And if you were just called upon to raise one person because a healer has swiftcast on cool down, then a 30 second recast timer changes nothing.

If we want to look at it as a charged action with a cool down, then we'd have to look more to something like Hallowed Ground or Hyperbolide to determine the right length. 7 minutes cool down so that you go into the fight able to raise twice, maybe three times if someone dies early on.

[plasmacutter]

I wouldnt say RDM is that high RDPS Wise, while Majority of its Utility kit is realistically around Supporting Progression. while it is true, u cant measure its Utility by DPS As alot of The reasons to bring a RDM is Basically its Instant rezz.but for as long as they keep RDM balanced with Verraise it'll remain Ditched Every time content moves past its Progression era

Why? After content becomes farm or older everyone else puts out even more dps and nobody is concerned about the checks.

I've never seen rdm excluded without some ulterior motive (caster lead trying to monopolize loot!)

[MPandemonium]

I feel with everyone here. Rdm is my most loved/most hated dps class in Shadowbringers

I didn't think it was that bad during Stormblood. I could out-dps most average players on most classes with my Rdm. But now I only ever out-dps Dnc and the dead.

And on the Verraise discussion, there's no real point in giving us lower dps for non-dps utility. Embolden? Sure, I get that. But the very act of using Verraise is a dps loss. Giving us lower dps because of Verraise makes us take the hit twice. It also means we're ONLY good for progression. What about parties where no one dies? I'm punished for Verraise sitting uselessly on my hot bar?

[Miminming]

When a caster can only have a damage output same as range, is when the problem arise

[Dommy-Notatop]

Ranking class by where their aDPS and rDPS is rather difficult and IMO the best way to make class distinctions it through personal dps classes "buff receivers" and utility classes "buff givers". i think Buff givers would have to come out ahead in rDPS by a small but noticeable margin and buff receivers would have more aDPS by a rather noticeable amount. This of cause only applies if played well and is optimised (e.g. only with "buff recievers" recieveing the buff would the "Buff givers" come ahead in rDPS and would otherwise level out or be at a minor dps loss). there can also be the "intermediary classes" who's output is more middle of the road in both rDPS and aDPS as an alternative whlist providing more unique ways of buffing the party e.g. extra SS, Crit or DH (though balancing a SS buff sounds to me like a logistical nightmare).
(Im no theory crafter and if this is a bad idea please tell me why as i would like to know!)

EXAMPLES:
Buff recievers as they currently stand would include: BLM, SAM, MCH
Intermediary classes as they currently stand would include: DRG, MNK, BRD, and RDM* or SMN* (*either could also be buff givers they're so neck and neck right now i'd say they both currenty fall into this catagory)
Buff givers as they currently stand would include: DNC, NIN (*and possibly one of the magic classes rebalanced for this role)

But thats just what i'd like to see

[ForteNightshade]

Machinist can never pull Black Mage or current Monk numbers otherwise Melee DPS serve zero purpose. They're inherently at a disadvantage due to being the only DPS forced to entirely stop attacking based on range. While the solution is often janky uptime strats... why bother with those when you can simply run all range jobs and achieve the same overall damage without any drawbacks?

[SaberMaxwell]

Machinist can never pull Black Mage or current Monk numbers otherwise Melee DPS serve zero purpose. They're inherently at a disadvantage due to being the only DPS forced to entirely stop attacking based on range. While the solution is often janky uptime strats... why bother with those when you can simply run all range jobs and achieve the same overall damage without any drawbacks?

To play devil's advocate...

Stacking MCH (or anything more than two ranged) comes with a whole percent off of the total rDPS, which at 75k is substantial. There's a post right now theorizing you could double stack BLM over taking BLM+BRD and the loss means nothing; this is because of how much more damage BLM does than bard, but hypothetically if MCH and, say, SAM, did the same damage it wouldn't serve total rDPS well to just stack MCH over taking MCH+SAM. At most maybe you'd have people going 2r1m1c.

[AbyssDarks]

To play devil's advocate...

Stacking MCH (or anything more than two ranged) comes with a whole percent off of the total rDPS, which at 75k is substantial. There's a post right now theorizing you could double stack BLM over taking BLM+BRD and the loss means nothing; this is because of how much more damage BLM does than bard, but hypothetically if MCH and, say, SAM, did the same damage it wouldn't serve total rDPS well to just stack MCH over taking MCH+SAM. At most maybe you'd have people going 2r1m1c.

Ehh, on the flip side, thats only knocking your dps down to 74.25k. Realistically, unless your dying at 1% enrage, that 1% damage wont matter. Which I get is actually happening to some groups. But Im sure its MUCH more common that your dying at a much higher % or killing it with a much more comfy window.

Either way, wont hurt that much.

[SaberMaxwell]

Ehh, on the flip side, thats only knocking your dps down to 74.25k. Realistically, unless your dying at 1% enrage, that 1% damage wont matter. Which I get is actually happening to some groups. But Im sure its MUCH more common that your dying at a much higher % or killing it with a much more comfy window.

Either way, wont hurt that much.

It's cutting edge-level minor differences, to be sure. But in the hypothetical, stacking too many MCH (defined as: enough to lose 1% stats or more in party bonuses for not having one member of each role type in the party) just because MCH does MNK-level damage is still a dps negative; at most you'd see 2mch / 1melee / 1caster, perhaps, and the implications of that are up for interpretation. Last I checked as well, double stacking jobs still comes with a penalty to LB generation which itself hurts dps, but it's not as immediately noticeable.