RDM the unwelcome DPS :(

[MagiusNecros]

BLM doesn't have raise by virtue of having infinite MP. Has nothing to do with DPS regardless of what devs say.

Pretty sure SMN has better overall mobility given you only really hard cast 4 spells. Miasma, Ruin 1/3, and Resurrect and occasionally Outburst. The rest are instant or oGCD. SMN lacks a dash/teleport since it is free to move at all times.

For RDM to get Dualcast they need to hardcast a spell. And a majority of their rotation is a 1-2 combo of hardcasting a spell then using their DC proc on another spell or something else.

IMO BLM and RDM have warps or gap closers for the fact they have less mobility overall. You can argue that BLM mobility is rather good if you use AM effectively and instead of using LL as your damage CD you use it as a movement option.

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On a separate note I disagree with Red Mage being the most unwelcome. Blue Mage takes the cake for that. Mainly because level cap and poor design decisions.

[Lina_Slayer]

BLM doesn't have raise by virtue of having infinite MP. Has nothing to do with DPS regardless of what devs say.

Pretty sure SMN has better overall mobility given you only really hard cast 4 spells. Miasma, Ruin 1/3, and Resurrect and occasionally Outburst. The rest are instant or oGCD. SMN lacks a dash/teleport since it is free to move at all times.

For RDM to get Dualcast they need to hardcast a spell. And a majority of their rotation is a 1-2 combo of hardcasting a spell then using their DC proc on another spell or something else.

IMO BLM and RDM have warps or gap closers for the fact they have less mobility overall. You can argue that BLM mobility is rather good if you use AM effectively and instead of using LL as your damage CD you use it as a movement option.

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On a separate note I disagree with Red Mage being the most unwelcome. Blue Mage takes the cake for that. Mainly because level cap and poor design decisions.

Optimized SMN play makes it the least mobile caster, because while you can just replace Ruin 3 by Ruin 2 there is a 30 potency loss every time you do it, this coupled with the job having a really static rotation and thus being unable to save Ruin 4s for movement (like BLM does with Xenoglossy/procs) because they need to be used to weave stuff and the fact that even on phases that allow you to use a lot of instant spells (like DWT, Phoenix or even Baha where the optimized play is to use 4 instant casts) there is something that screw the job (DWT need to be cut fast or else you won't have your DoTs up for Bahamut phase and movement during Demi-Primal phases can make they lose an attack) and makes it unable to abuse those instant casts for movement.

So even if in number of instant spells used by minute SMN edges BLM and even if SMN have the most powerful spammable instant spell between the two (lol Scathe), the fact that BLM rotation is way less rigid means that BLM ends up having the overall edge in mobility.

[dinnertime]

Yes, but as other posters have stated regardless of what he said, the past patches don't reflect this. Why is raise the villain when both classes have the ability to heal themselves, and SMN's is a party wide regen. Why is raise the reason for low damage when it has always been there even when SMN was at it's prime, instead of that new addition heal? makes no sense.

If they actually consider Everlasting Flight, a flavor effect that you can't use optimally for AoE damage heavy moments, part of SMN's utility...then they really don't know what they're doing at this point.

Also SMN had arguably better utility in 4.x, too. Why is SMN in such a bad spot now? Meanwhile they've ignored RDM and it's in an even worse place. Yes, Raise isn't the only "villain", but it's a huge part of the problem with caster job balancing right now. They both have these sub-optimal utilities and the tax for it is too much right now.

[Aomine1992]

BLM doesn't have raise by virtue of having infinite MP. Has nothing to do with DPS regardless of what devs say.

Pretty sure SMN has better overall mobility given you only really hard cast 4 spells. Miasma, Ruin 1/3, and Resurrect and occasionally Outburst. The rest are instant or oGCD. SMN lacks a dash/teleport since it is free to move at all times.

For RDM to get Dualcast they need to hardcast a spell. And a majority of their rotation is a 1-2 combo of hardcasting a spell then using their DC proc on another spell or something else.

IMO BLM and RDM have warps or gap closers for the fact they have less mobility overall. You can argue that BLM mobility is rather good if you use AM effectively and instead of using LL as your damage CD you use it as a movement option.

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On a separate note I disagree with Red Mage being the most unwelcome. Blue Mage takes the cake for that. Mainly because level cap and poor design decisions.

SMN is not mobile when played correctly...Demi summons have to be still for attacking purposes, using Ruin 2 is a heavy lose in dps, DWT is blown quickly to align with party buffs. Please don’t mis understand the class for what it used to be in SB.

[Ahrijlaken]

DPS is the easiest thing to balance : You get the data of rDPS and pDPS and you ajust potency.
RDM is not a damage support DPS class, rdm deserve better pdps, period.

BLM deserve the first spot, it's normal, it's a slow cast/mobility caster with 0 utility for the group beside his damage. Then Monk 2nd ok no problem, then every DPS ( exepct ninja/dancer) should be 3rd with dragoon and machinist and then Ninja/Dancer should be 4th but not too far behind the other like it is now. Ninja/dancer deserve better pDPS.

[BarretOblivion]

SAM/BLM should be the top pDPS as stated they have 0 raid utility while I would argue MCH should be 3rd followed by MNK. The reason for MCH is they have 0 raid utility when it comes to increasing other's damage with only Tactician as a raid wide mitigation. Compare that to Brotherhood which is just a flat 5% damage boost and you get to the point where I would argue it should be at the upper part of the rest of the group. Dragoon, Ninja, and Dancer as the last should bring up the end of the spectrum. Dragoon has quite a bit of utility although its between 1 person and a crit buff while Ninja is just fantstic for Trick Attack being up every what is it 60 secs?
Now, RDM needs to be closer to the center of the spectrum in my humble opinion. Its still designed at its core to be a progression/learning job that helps clear content and then you swap to SMN or BLM for optimal speed kills. That's fine but RDM in my opinion besides its raise has almost 0 raid wide utility. Embolden with its tappering off effect and only being physical damage for as long of a cooldown as it is doesn't justify me considering a RDM a support DPS. Yeah, raise is nice for healers but RDM can't spam the darn thing else they run out of mana and you know... weakness exists. RDM needs their damage raised or buff Embolden to be a stagnant flat damage up until it runs out with a shorter cooldown.

[geekgirl101]

Its still designed at its core to be a progression/learning job that helps clear content and then you swap to SMN or BLM for optimal speed kills. That's fine but RDM in my opinion besides its raise has almost 0 raid wide utility. Embolden with its tappering off effect and only being physical damage for as long of a cooldown as it is doesn't justify me considering a RDM a support DPS.

That just feels so wrong to me. That's saying that RDM has no place in actual endgame content and is only there to assist others in learning the mechanics before they go for the actual kill, in which RDM is not welcome. That makes me feel dirty.

[geekgirl101]

So I decided to go all out on an E1S dummy and see what state RDM really is in for myself. I'm just over 450 iLevel whilst a fellow FC member who is a 440 iLevel DRG battled out against another dummy. I used food, the DRG didn't. I had everything on CD without missing a second in the fight and high uptime on procs and failed with 4% remaining. The DRG completed hers with 6 seconds remaining.

I got served by a DRG who is over 10 iLevels lower than me and wasn't even using food and 450 is supposed to be E1S content.

[Zyneste]

So I decided to go all out on an E1S dummy and see what state RDM really is in for myself. I'm just over 450 iLevel whilst a fellow FC member who is a 440 iLevel DRG battled out against another dummy. I used food, the DRG didn't. I had everything on CD without missing a second in the fight and high uptime on procs and failed with 4% remaining. The DRG completed hers with 6 seconds remaining.

I got served by a DRG who is over 10 iLevels lower than me and wasn't even using food and 450 is supposed to be E1S content.

I keep seeing you post stuff like this, but SSS is tuned to the the RDM. Usually its a bit harder than it should be, but its still doable. The DRG beating their dummy just means relatively, they should be better at DRG than you are at RDM, if it was a fair metric. Although, SSS is usually a bit too hard on the RDM and is overtuned. EIther way, its not a tool you can use to inter-measure between classes.

Earlier I saw you say that the tanks were out DPSing you, the only reason that should happen is if you die... and die allot.

[geekgirl101]

I keep seeing you post stuff like this, but SSS is tuned to the the RDM. Usually its a bit harder than it should be, but its still doable. The DRG beating their dummy just means relatibely, they should be better at DRG than you are at RDM. Although, SSS is usually a bit too hard on the RDM and is overtuned. EIther way, its not a tool you can use to inter-measure between classes.

Earlier I saw you say that the tanks were out DPSing you, the only reason that should happen is if you die... and die allot.

I don't recall what happened in that fight, I may have died 3 or 4 times that caused my DPS to bottom out but other DPS jobs that died a lot also were able to bounce right back up again with no trouble. Without parse details I'm unable to show or understand what was going so horribly wrong for me and why I struggled so hard to keep up with the remaining DPS, that's why I decided to tackle an E1S dummy to see if it was just RDMs in general or if maybe my moving around the fight so much was costing me so much DPS that I needed to adjust how I moved around in that fight. SSS is supposed to help you determine if you're capable of doing enough damage to assist the rest of the party in defeating the boss before it hits enrage, if not then what else is it supposed to be for. All I know is I was the lowest DPS by a lot and that I couldn't even defeat a dummy in 450 gear for content that was for 450 gear, that's like several millions of damage in comparison that I wasn't able to help tear off to avoid enrage and from previous fights in places like EX trials and E1S that is exactly what happens with us barely avoiding the enrage even in a flawless run without me or anyone else dying or missing my rotation and still performing abysmally in comparison to the other DPS jobs. It's so flawed logic that having utilities means my job needs to be severely punished when I'm barely using the ones that are the reason for my job being punished. If raise really is the real issue then give BLMs one, call it something like Reanimate, and make us all even-steven.