How to fix summoners.

[Zerathor]

Or they'll just.... Not give SMN any of these juicy and wonderful ideas and at this rate let the job be sad for an expansion.

Or slip out lame mini-math adjustments.

You're right, they might have to put up with being the most popular savage caster by 50% vs other casters combined instead of 75%. The tragedy.

[Vendalwind]

You're right, they might have to put up with being the most popular savage caster by 50% vs other casters combined instead of 75%. The tragedy.

I don't play SMN yet but looking at the logs even RDM is outdoing them in some percentiles right now, and they do have raises but the gap between them and BLM is HUGE.

Im honestly still surprised there isnt a bigger rant following for them and RDM than there is for NIN right now, but thats cause they do actually still have some outside dps utility.

It's not something to make light of.

SMN is in a bad spot, and IMO would be the class I'd want the least in my raid group of the 3 to fill the caster spot.

[Zerathor]

SMN is in a bad spot, and IMO would be the class I'd want the least in my raid group of the 3 to fill the caster spot.

A job in a bad spot isn't the most played job of a role by a significant margin. Ninja, is in a bad spot, stormblood machinist was in a bad spot. This? This is people being upset the job isn't absurdly overpowered anymore.

[Letz]

A job in a bad spot isn't the most played job of a role by a significant margin. Ninja, is in a bad spot, stormblood machinist was in a bad spot. This? This is people being upset the job isn't absurdly overpowered anymore.

1. Can you tell us with what evidence you see this "significant margin"? And even if that were true:
2. Your argument is based on whether people are still playing SMN or not, which is not related to whether or not there are problems with the job in the first place.
3. If the job was overpowered in previous expansions, it is also unrelated to whether the job has problems with it currently.

[Zerathor]

1. Can you tell us with what evidence you see this "significant margin"? And even if that were true:
2. Your argument is based on whether people are still playing SMN or not, which is not related to whether or not there are problems with the job in the first place.
3. If the job was overpowered in previous expansions, it is also unrelated to whether the job has problems with it currently.

1.https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/29
I guess week 2 they fell more in line with blm in popularity on all fights combined
Get down to titan, it's still in lead slightly
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/29#boss=68

2. I've seen jobs in unplayable job positions. Know what people did? Not play them anywhere near this much. Especially not in the first few weeks of a new tier.

3. I feel it's related because many have forgotten how it feels to be in a more balanced position when they were used to being on a pedestal.

[Letz]

1.https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/29
I guess week 2 they fell more in line with blm in popularity on all fights combined
Get down to titan, it's still in lead slightly
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/29#boss=68

2. I've seen jobs in unplayable job positions. Know what people did? Not play them anywhere near this much. Especially not in the first few weeks of a new tier.

3. I feel it's related because many have forgotten how it feels to be in a more balanced position when they were used to being on a pedestal.

1. Yes, BLM and SMN seem to be pretty much even across the board now. And I expect that BLM will overtake it soon after people stop prioritizing SMN because of its rez in prog. But either way, even as it stands now, I wouldn't consider that a significant margin.
2. I would not categorize the complaints players have as calling SMN "unplayable." Obviously there are people who are dramatic, but that goes for all jobs. I believe this is a more annoying position that SMN is in currently, compared to AST in 5.0. SMN is playable, but still flawed. Therefore, the devs might feel less pressure to fix the flaws and bugs, because it is still playable, unlike broken af AST which got its rework immediately. Compare that to what happened with MCH all throughout SB. It had major flaws, but it was still playable, so that's where it sat literally all expansion. Yes, they tweaked potencies and small things, but that never solved any issues design-wise. That is what a lot of SMNs don't want to see happen. So being vocal now is the best chance to get the dev's to focus on SMN.
3. I will say – that's a good point. I do believe that SCHs outcry was heavily influenced by the favoritism they experienced until 5.0. However, we are still here to discuss SMNs issues, and not the playerbase's reactions to the flaws, whether they are overreactions or justified. So that's a good metric to dismiss certain reactions to issues, but not the issues themselves.

To add to this, I believe a lot of more casual players don't perceive issues that affect playability because letting abilities drift and clipping don't really bother people until they become interested in playing optimally. So their feedback is that the job is fine, which is placing a lot of weight on the other side of the scale – feedback which is influenced by personal play choices and not an objective evaluation of the job's design.

[Zerathor]

To add to this, I believe a lot of more casual players don't perceive issues that affect playability because letting abilities drift and clipping don't really bother people until they become interested in playing optimally. So their feedback is that the job is fine, which is placing a lot of weight on the other side of the scale – feedback which is influenced by personal play choices and not an objective evaluation of the job's design.

I find its the opposite really. The casuals can't figure out what the hell is going on and want it extremely simplified or reworked. The good smns I've talked to enjoy the pace and only complain about the clipping bug on first WW. At least out of people I know.