Dear Paladins

[Nedkel]

I'm in favor of this guy taking every single 0 dps healer in all of his parties if it means I get all the good healers for fast runs.

Also Hallowed Ground is not used for emergency, you plan ahead when you'll use it. Dungeon => first big pull then use it again whenever it's up (usually during final boss if you have a good party); raid/trials>either to cheese a mechanic or a tank buster, early enough so that you can use it twice during the fight.

You're supposed to stack shelltron with one of your stronger cooldowns, same with arm's length in trash pulls.

"good healers" is a relative term, because i am not speaking about healers who are able to dps and keep my health at least at 50%, but i am not calling healer a good healer if he is risking the wipe and putting me on a freaking line with stick to balance myself and not flip into oblivion, because that how it is as tank when your healer thinks it is compeletely fine to let you "live" at 10-20% health all the time. It is like i am a tank and i let few mobs attacking dps, because "hey they could hold few, the damage is spread around a whole party HP, so it is efficient to share some of our damage taken to make an use of the hp regen everyone has", which is a complete nonsense.
if you want to exchange "green dps" for a pure healers, then i cannot be more happy about the deal.
Wiping is less fun than making run few minutes longer.

The next time i see healer not healing me to comfortable levels i make sure i have shirk macro on my side to press it.

[Sancho_Nyanta]

To be honest though if you are able to Shirk people at this point in the game I would have to question how the heck you would be able to. Tank threat is stupid strong now. If you both walk up to a mob they can go hog wild on it and you can keep hate with just auto attacks unless you died or just didn't have your stance on.

Just to test it, I've tried to Shirk my static healer and haven't been able to give him enough hate to take it unless I died, he got me back up, I voked and then immediately shirked him. This was the only way when we were testing it that I could actually shirk them to give them hate.

[Makeda]

Wasn’t this standard to do early in a huge trash pull in 4.x to generate silly threat so they could spend the rest of the pull in DPS stance? As such maybe aone folks just haven’t read their patch notes or prefer not using their AOE rotation because whatever (I switch to single on GNB often to get my self heal/shield and to speed down damage on a mob that casting effects I have to keep moving out of... so I get not always using the AoE rotation).

[Mesarthim]

The next time i see healer not healing me to comfortable levels i make sure i have shirk macro on my side to press it.

I mean if you want to get reported for harassment, go for it. Can people dial down the passive aggressiveness? Some of you have way too much anger stored up.

This is a thread that could've stayed buried because all people seem to be using it for is to vent instead of constructive dialogue.

[phantomr23]

I really fail to see the issue with letting a tank drop below 50% health. Damage in this game comes at incredibly predictable intervals and healing is based entirely around oGCD heals that often benefit immensely from allowing the tank to drop to lower health (Excog, Benediction, etc.) Sure, if we die on the first wall to wall pull because the healer doesn't know what they're doing, then that sucks - but I've seen that happen maybe once in the past 100 dungeon runs, whereas me trusting the healer has let everything go much more smoothly the other 99.

Healers doing DPS isn't them playing badly or messing around with your life, it's just them taking full advantage of their kit and playing in the way that the game is clearly intended to be played.

(That said, clemency can and should be used if the healer is dying, if you're familiar with the healer's kit and you can clearly tell that they're out of oGCD options, or you mess up and take needless damage.)

[Fluffernuff]

Healers doing DPS isn't them playing badly or messing around with your life, it's just them taking full advantage of their kit and playing in the way that the game is clearly intended to be played.

i pretty much said my peace on this matter a couple pages back, but this line has me kinda... split. I much prefer a healer using their kit, and is comfortable enough to let me drop and speed up the dungeon as a whole and whatnot; i generally advocate for it... so dont take this as disagreeing, but...

given the statements yoshi-p has given in the past, and this general mentality being mostly localized to NA... well i dont think how we push healers in this way is intended in the slightest. THAT said... it's clear that the intention is very much at odds with the current design we have.

[RyuSaarva]

I mean if you want to get reported for harassment, go for it. Can people dial down the passive aggressiveness? Some of you have way too much anger stored up.

This is a thread that could've stayed buried because all people seem to be using it for is to vent instead of constructive dialogue.

don't worry, that won't work anymore, tanks do way too much enmity now, shirk tank swaps only work with ot if they have their stance on.

[phantomr23]

i pretty much said my peace on this matter a couple pages back, but this line has me kinda... split. I much prefer a healer using their kit, and is comfortable enough to let me drop and speed up the dungeon as a whole and whatnot; i generally advocate for it... so dont take this as disagreeing, but...

given the statements yoshi-p has given in the past, and this general mentality being mostly localized to NA... well i dont think how we push healers in this way is intended in the slightest. THAT said... it's clear that the intention is very much at odds with the current design we have.

It's hard to say, honestly, but I definitely lean towards feeling like it's absolutely intentional. Given that a lot of things have been lost in translation (the infamous "pure healer" line, for one) I've been unable to actually find direct evidence of Yoshi-P outright saying healers are mostly meant to heal. More than that though, I think the fact that you outright cannot complete Savage or Ultimate in the first weeks without copious healer DPS and the re-addition of Energy Drain in 5.05 - alongside just how many healing skills are oGCD - seems like it definitely implies that maximising damage output is intended.

[Brandedblade]

A clemency from the paladin means the gravity spam can continue <3

[Fluffernuff]

snip

what im mostly referring to was statements he made before stormblood came out, and how he said point blank that healer dps wasnt factored into the fight design. or something along those lines. also, i dont remember/have a source for this but "pure healer" wasnt so much lost in translation so much as we as the NA community slapped a completely different notion of what that means than what yoshi did.

also, i dont think its fair to say that SCH *needed* ED to clear savage. it rounds out their kit, and not having an aetherflow dump on damage was very awkward. but if you listen to someone like momo, it wasnt the absolute end of the world.

But that really just brings it back to what i was saying; regardless of if they intend for healers to DPS or not doesnt really matter, because whats we actually get, the actual design pushes it regardless. it's kind of the nature of the beast we get. ff14 just isnt constantly pressuring healing often enough- its innately spikey on both the tank and healer ends. leaving enough downtime for dps to begin with.

not to mention enrage timers. but im chocking that up to NA again simply because.... "if we dont pass enrage, it clearly wasnt ME, how dare you. I'M a MNK, i couldnt possibly be the problem. No, the AST needs to pick up the pace." we also have the unfortunate habit of excluding roles entirely based on this. im not sure EU or JP is just auto-locking DNC, NIN, or RDM out of things, and i highly doubt they dont have those jobs clearing every week