Dear Paladins

[Maeka]

Well, see, what I find happens is this:

1). I try to Benison the tank before he grabs the first enemy (sometimes he does that thing when he rushes at the enemy causing my Benison to land a second too late which gets me immediate aggro and he has to stop and make sure he has the mobs)
2). Tank runs to get more mobs, losing Benison in the process and getting taken down to about 90%
3). Tank stops at some place and I run up to the pack to start casting Holy.

There are times the tank is 30-50% health by the time my first Holy comes out. Especially during the first pull of the Dungeon where the only instants I have are Tetra and Bene, and with the first pull of a dungeon, not knowing how good a tank is, or is not, I don't like dumping Benediction on the first pull because you just don't know what's going to happen later on.

So after 2-3 Holy Casts, I am left with a tank that has 30-50%.

If the tank casts Clemency this is awesome awesome awesome. That tank earns a hearty Thank-You from me because that relieves me of a lot of stress.

If not, Tetra isn't going to save them; if they have 30% or some such, they'll have like 50-60% after and they'll be right back down to the 30s within the few seconds it takes me to wind up some Cure2s. Then it's a losing battle to spam Cure2 faster than they're losing health which usually ends up me praying for a crit.

Assize is usually thrown in here somewhere, but even that + Tetra sometimes isn't enough.

This is why I love a tank who does Clemency during the initial Holy Spam. It really helps me. A Lot. And they're only sacrificing one DPS spell to do so.

EDIT: I have seen better geared tanks who can just pull two or three groups of mobs and NOT drop that fast, but these seem to not be the norm in my Expert roulettes lately. I usually get people who are ~440 who probably shouldn't be overpulling like that.
EDIT2: Also, contrary to what some tanks and healers believe, the DPS are important too... a pair of 90k health DPS that know how to play their job, you can easily pull huge groups even if the tank and heals aren't that great geared if the tank knows how to use their mitigation buttons because everything dies ludicrously fast. But if the DPS are 440 geared and are putting out terrible DPS then it just takes too long for stuff to die and we eventually run out of cooldowns and MP.

[Mavrias]

Well, see, what I find happens is this:

1). I try to Benison the tank before he grabs the first enemy (sometimes he does that thing when he rushes at the enemy causing my Benison to land a second too late which gets me immediate aggro and he has to stop and make sure he has the mobs)
2). Tank runs to get more mobs, losing Benison in the process and getting taken down to about 90%
3). Tank stops at some place and I run up to the pack to start casting Holy.

There are times the tank is 30-50% health by the time my first Holy comes out. Especially during the first pull of the Dungeon where the only instants I have are Tetra and Bene, and with the first pull of a dungeon, not knowing how good a tank is, or is not, I don't like dumping Benediction on the first pull because you just don't know what's going to happen later on.

So after 2-3 Holy Casts, I am left with a tank that has 30-50%.

If the tank casts Clemency this is awesome awesome awesome. That tank earns a hearty Thank-You from me because that relieves me of a lot of stress.

If not, Tetra isn't going to save them; if they have 30% or some such, they'll have like 50-60% after and they'll be right back down to the 30s within the few seconds it takes me to wind up some Cure2s. Then it's a losing battle to spam Cure2 faster than they're losing health which usually ends up me praying for a crit.

Assize is usually thrown in here somewhere, but even that + Tetra sometimes isn't enough.

This is why I love a tank who does Clemency during the initial Holy Spam. It really helps me. A Lot. And they're only sacrificing one DPS spell to do so.

EDIT: I have seen better geared tanks who can just pull two or three groups of mobs and NOT drop that fast, but these seem to not be the norm in my Expert roulettes lately. I usually get people who are ~440 who probably shouldn't be overpulling like that.
EDIT2: Also, contrary to what some tanks and healers believe, the DPS are important too... a pair of 90k health DPS that know how to play their job, you can easily pull huge groups even if the tank and heals aren't that great geared if the tank knows how to use their mitigation buttons because everything dies ludicrously fast. But if the DPS are 440 geared and are putting out terrible DPS then it just takes too long for stuff to die and we eventually run out of cooldowns and MP.

Benison + Regen during the process of the pull holy> holy > asylum > Regen + assize > holy > continued holy spam > tetra/ bene/ aflatus as necessary

so long as theyre using cooldowns they shouldnt need to supplement your healing with clemency.

expert roulette has like an i410 min ilvl, i440 is more than fine.

[TheForce]

lmao if the paladin is spamming clemency i just take the opportunity to dps more. I never complain about it, they've obviously been burned before, and if they want to use their security blanket, i dont mind. essential dignity/excog/ lustrate/ bene will still be there when tbey run out of mana.

I like this guy. I like this guy a lot.

[Warskull]

When doing roulettes, if your HP is dipping very, very low you either have an extremely good healer or an extremely bad healer. You don't know which until you die and the group wipes. So it is a gamble.

If you clemency and the healer is good, they just get to DPS some more. If you don't clemency you get a a more efficient run. The problem is with bad healers. If you clemency with a bad healer you save a wipe, if you don't clemency you wipe.

My personal experience is bad healers outnumber good healers and the only place you don't want to be is wiping. Plus they'll complain no matter what you do. Use clemency and they'll complain that you should be DPSing, trust them and don't use it and they'll scream it is your fault when you wipe.

[hynaku]

Maybe they wouldn't have to if you kept them healed. Like today in world of darkness healers let all the tanks keep on dying all I ever saw for heals whole time was regen being used and all healers but one went in to the belly leaving no heals hardly for the tank.

[Maeka]

Maybe they wouldn't have to if you kept them healed. Like today in world of darkness healers let all the tanks keep on dying all I ever saw for heals whole time was regen being used and all healers but one went in to the belly leaving no heals hardly for the tank.

I just did a Chrysalis run 3-4 days ago, where the 2nd phase of the fight with the meteors, we spawn in, and people are just standing there doing nothing while everybody is slowly dying, and the 2nd meteor wipes half the group MT and me (I'm the OT) caught the meteors as we should. The healers seemingly didn't notice that everybody was dying to DoTs and the first person who goes "Really? nobody caught meteors?" was one of the healers. Half of the group was quick to point out that nobody casted a single heal.

[Nedkel]

Maybe they wouldn't have to if you kept them healed. Like today in world of darkness healers let all the tanks keep on dying all I ever saw for heals whole time was regen being used and all healers but one went in to the belly leaving no heals hardly for the tank.

When it happens for extended period of time just eat one AOE or two for gigles or use shirk on someone in the party. xD
Shirk is a literal reverse card, healer want me to die? NO U

[Pepsi_Plunge]

When it happens for extended period of time just eat one AOE or two for gigles or use shirk on someone in the party. xD
Shirk is a literal reverse card, healer want me to die? NO U

But this will get you reported and can lead to a ban.

[Maeka]

But this will get you reported and can lead to a ban.

Maybe if done repeatedly to grief someone, but surely they don't ban players over pulling 1 shirk? I mean, who is to say that you don't have two buttons side-by-side and one of them is "shirk second person in the group" macro which, in an 8 man group would be the OT and if you use it in a 4man group it's the healer and you hit the shirk macro accidentally while trying to hit something else?

If so that's.... just stupid.

I guess the only thing to do now is to do slow pulls for 5 minutes and then abandon the duty if you don't like your healer.

EDIT: For that matter, I have (accidentally) gotten a healer killed because early in a pull I reached for the Hallowed Ground button. Hallowed Ground is Shift+=. Shield Oath is Ctrl+=. Guess which one I hit, lol. Accidentally turned Oath off 2 seconds into a pull and the healer was dead 5 seconds later and I couldn't figure out what was wrong, and when we got back up, I noticed Oath was missing and it was "OOOH that's why Hallowed Ground didn't fire". Oops.

[Warskull]

But this will get you reported and can lead to a ban.

It isn't actually possible unless you turn your tank stance off. Tank stance's agro bonus is so huge that in a full party with both tanks shirting the same healer, they still wouldn't pass agro to the healer.