When do the training wheels come off?

[Forever_Learning]

I'm going to state this once.

Please read it carefully:

Doing the MSQ and Class/Job Quests gives you equipment. There is no reason, beyond being neglectful, that anyone doing ARR should end up going into a dungeon/trial with equipment more than (a lenient) 10 levels below the dungeon's/Trial's level. Not only that but equipment is insanely cheap to purchase from stores if you are THAT hard up for a piece of equipment. This all excludes Accessories because they don't actually matter much while leveling.

Also, you aren't wiping because the other players are carrying you.

You're moving the goalposts here. The tank in question was using a level 15 shield in a level 44 instance, not gear from the previous dungeon. There is no excuse besides deliberate laziness for using gear that is almost 30 levels too low.

Having full poetics gear isn't comparable to having a mix of +10 levels under gear that's a mix of caster/DPS/tank gear for a 4 man trial.

I'm going to state this once.

Please read it carefully:

Doing the MSQ and Class/Job Quests gives you equipment. There is no reason, beyond being neglectful, that anyone doing ARR should end up going into a dungeon/trial with equipment more than (a lenient) 10 levels below the dungeon's/Trial's level. Not only that but equipment is insanely cheap to purchase from stores if you are THAT hard up for a piece of equipment. This all excludes Accessories because they don't actually matter much while leveling.

Also, you aren't wiping because the other players are carrying you.

I think this comment was directed personally at me, but I buy poetics gear and gear from NPC vendors to ensure I don’t stay behind. But I also remember making mistakes a few months ago that were silly, but it was because I was returning to the game rather than being dumb and lazy. My beef is that people in the past tended to always just assume I’m dumb and lazy if I do something wrong while simultaneously never explaining to me what I did wrong.

I find that the only reasons for people being in this situation is ignorance of how poorly the Recommended Gear button is implemented at low levels or how different stats affect them (in which case, elucidation of the feature is required), ignorance of the fact that they can get acceptable gear from a vendor (prompting a quick pointer to what vendor sells gear they can use; or if I'm feeling generous, a free, full HQ set for their job when the duty is finished that'll be good to last them 10 levels), or just outright laziness (which is not an acceptable excuse).

The recommended gear button is very appealing and I don’t think it’s a coincidence we’re discussing a level 44 tank. Yelling at that person, kicking them, isn’t going to help them realize the limitations of the recommended gear button.
When someone doesn’t have their stone, ask them if they are aware they don’t have their stone equipped. It’s quite possible they don’t realize the recommended gear button doesn’t always equip the stone and could be standing there as confused as you are.

For example, I once healed a dungeon where the tank wasn’t using grit, and this was a HW dungeon. I could have yelled at the tank, tried to initiate a kick, but instead I simply said “Are you aware you don’t have grit on?” – one second later, it was on and never left.

I find it’s more useful to interact with the other player rather than simply assuming they are dumb, lazy, and nothing will change no matter is said. Some people are just new, but willing to work, or they don’t realize they forgot to do something they normally do.

[Lmcgyver]

I find that the only reasons for people being in this situation is ignorance of how poorly the Recommended Gear button is implemented at low levels or how different stats affect them (in which case, elucidation of the feature is required), ignorance of the fact that they can get acceptable gear from a vendor (prompting a quick pointer to what vendor sells gear they can use; or if I'm feeling generous, a free, full HQ set for their job when the duty is finished that'll be good to last them 10 levels), or just outright laziness (which is not an acceptable excuse).

The recommended gear button is very appealing and I don’t think it’s a coincidence we’re discussing a level 44 tank. Yelling at that person, kicking them, isn’t going to help them realize the limitations of the recommended gear button.
For example, I once healed a dungeon where the tank wasn’t using grit, and this was a HW dungeon. I could have yelled at the tank, tried to initiate a kick, but instead I simply said “Are you aware you don’t have grit on?” – one second later, it was on and never left.
I find it’s more useful to interact with the other player rather than simply assuming they are dumb, lazy, and nothing will change no matter is said. Some people are just new, but willing to work, or they don’t realize they forgot to do something they normally do.

I'm not sure where all this talk of yelling/kicking etc. came from. I never assume a player is "dumb/lazy/unable to change" (at least, not until all other possibilities are exhausted), and do, in fact, quite often reach out when I see someone who may be in need of help. I am well aware of the appeal of the Recommended Gear button and how much of a trap it is, hence being ready and willing to explain to the player in question the pitfalls of the system. I can definitely agree that yelling at and/or kicking a player is neither a helpful nor constructive avenue for player growth.

I’m not attacking and is genuinely trying to get info on BLM. What exactly do BLM spam for aoe? I usually spam fire 2 while weaving in lightning, foul and then flare at the end and switch to freeze spam, while refreshing lighting and foul. So what do you guys do if not use fire 2?

I believe, from level 68, it's generally along the lines of Freeze > Thunder IV > Fire III > Flare > Flare > Transpose (skip if 72+) > Freeze > etc.. That being said, I'm not well versed in the ShB BLM AoE rotation; I know it doesn't use Fire II or Blizzard II though.

[Lmcgyver]

Decent gear - when you are low level, spamming dungeons, you can often move up several levels and discover your gear is less than optimal, but sufficient anyway, you just move on.
Are you seriously saying I should spam something like the vault until I upgrade all my gear, and only then move onto great gubal library?
No one does this - you spam the vault a couple times to reach level 58, then you spam library, and whatever gear you get along the way is bonus.
You also do this because you are clearing the dungeon rather than wiping, so the gear equipped is sufficient, meaning there's little incentive for seeking out much better gear.

No one expects you to have a full set of gear from the previous dungeon before reaching the next one; that is an unreasonable expectation given that loot is random.

What is expected, however, is to at least make an attempt to make sure your gear is appropriate for what you are doing. This tank had "a mix of caster, dow gear and 2 tank pieces all below level 35", in a level 44 instance. As a general rule, you shouldn't be letting your gear get any lower than 5 levels below your current level where possible, with every effort made to keep it within 10 levels. You certainly shouldn't be equipping gear inappropriate to your role (i.e. caster gear on a tank; DoW gets a grudging pass from me, as it does at least have more physical defence than caster gear and provides STR, but it's not ideal). Quests provide plenty of options for gear, and there's always NPC vendors selling level-appropriate gear in every area of the world that only costs a handful of Gil. I find that the only reasons for people being in this situation is ignorance of how poorly the Recommended Gear button is implemented at low levels or how different stats affect them (in which case, elucidation of the feature is required), ignorance of the fact that they can get acceptable gear from a vendor (prompting a quick pointer to what vendor sells gear they can use; or if I'm feeling generous, a free, full HQ set for their job when the duty is finished that'll be good to last them 10 levels), or just outright laziness (which is not an acceptable excuse).

[Sorciechan]

Are you seriously saying I should spam something like the vault until I upgrade all my gear, and only then move onto great gubal library?

No one does this

I do, actually.

At least, I do when I have gear less than 5 lvls below my and/or the dungeon's level. The stat increase makes a difference.
Plus, xp is xp. You're gonna have to grind it one way or another, so why not spam the dungeons you need to get the gear from?

[Silver-Strider]

So what you're saying is that you were able to successfully handle the basics of the game because past experience had prepared you for it.

Did you ever consider that not everyone has that past experience?

Speaking as someone that NEVER played an MMO game before FFXIV, this excuse only carries you so far and does not excuse you from being ill equip for content. I still remember my newbie days constantly going to my Grand Company to see if I could upgrade any of my gear to make sure I was as properly geared as I could be going into any new content. This wasn't explained to me, there wasn't a Hall of Novice or Novice Network feeding me information by the handful and no real friends to speak of at the time, it was stuff that I learned pretty quickly on my own as it only seemed logical that higher level gear with bigger numerical stats was better gear in general. It took me forever to even earn my 1st 100k as I was always buying better gear whenever I could to fill out whatever I couldn't get from my Grand Company and it served me well in my career. It was a painful experience but I don't think that's an excuse for not learning how to play the game at even the early stages.

[Azbroolah]

Decent gear - when you are low level, spamming dungeons, you can often move up several levels and discover your gear is less than optimal, but sufficient anyway, you just move on.

Are you seriously saying I should spam something like the vault until I upgrade all my gear, and only then move onto great gubal library?

No one does this - you spam the vault a couple times to reach level 58, then you spam library, and whatever gear you get along the way is bonus.

You're moving the goalposts here. The tank in question was using a level 15 shield in a level 44 instance, not gear from the previous dungeon. There is no excuse besides deliberate laziness for using gear that is almost 30 levels too low.

[Barraind]

strict requirements

Yeah, how dare we expect people to wear appropriate gear, not spaz out as a tank in a game that decided positionals are great, and do their job quests?

We're monsters.

Decent gear - when you are low level, spamming dungeons, you can often move up several levels and discover your gear is less than optimal, but sufficient anyway, you just move on.

Are you seriously saying I should spam something like the vault until I upgrade all my gear, and only then move onto great gubal library?

Only if you feel like doing it.

You shouldnt be running around in a mix of Cutters Cry pinks and level 48 nq white gear though.

[Mahoukenshi]

Not meant as an excuse: But the mix of caster/healer, dps and tank gear is partly the fault of the the auto-equip function as was mentioned earlier or a similar topic. I noticed it by chance when I levelel one of my alt-job tanks and have made it a habit to double-check since them . Well, I don't know if in the given example the higher-leveled tank never looked at what was equipped under the premisse of using the recommended gear function, though.

[Awful]

I'm just really surprised that people still can't que into dungeons with proper gear, let alone missing a freaking job stone of all things they made things a lot more streamlined for tanks as well as other classes, like you get your tank stance at lvl 10 now, most tanks have a 1-2 AoE step combo while leveling, Provoke, etc. There's literally no excuse to not be a PLD by lvl 30 just like there's no excuse to be a burden in your group at lvl 44 as a GLD in Garuda normal, if it was me I'd have just kicked em after the first pull I'm not giving someone a free pass in any kind of content if they don't know how to play might as well just 3 man the dungeons n what not.

I also don't get why people defend this garbage they're the reasons we have ice mages, SMNS not using DoTs and spamming Ruin 2, tanks not tanking, people queing into lvl 65+ dungeons with ilvl 120 weapons and ilvl 39 right side, it's not okay to let people get free passes.

[Hawklaser]

I'm getting the impression that there's a general consensus that things were more difficult in ARR?

I played during that time and I don't remember it being harder.

Hauke - people maybe wiped at the last boss due to the lamps, but that still happens. People unaware they should click return after the second boss was a bigger issues, and remains so. The ease of brayflox largely depended on how much your tank wanted to pull, which I think remains the case.

I always felt the only difficult dungeon pre-50 was Stone Vigil.

Hauke wasn't just the void lamps. The patroling maidens with their aoe terrorize could easily wipe groups as well. Not everyone would stun that cast or realize to focus them down. Brayflox was more just about being up to date and paying attention, more for healers as some nasty poisons there. Qarn's bees with final sting which could wreak a tank, as well as its crocs with their rear cone attacks. Dzamel where need to fight in specific locations for the first portion, and not get knocked over a ledge in a later one. Stone vigals delayed spawn ice sprites. Aurum Vales fruit mechanic. Each added a small degree of challenge to their respective dungeon, either by adding a little more complexity or a little more difficulty. Not enough to really be much of a hurdle to most, but enough to catch those coasting along as well as be appreciated by others. Just enough of a change of pace to be noticed but not also warrant going up a full difficulty setting, as they very carefully built up the difficulty across the dungeons in ARR much like one would expect from a single player game. ARR's MSQ expected more out of the player as they progressed through it.

The expansion dungeons and MSQ have not felt that way yet. Having to prioritize specific trash mobs for stuns/kills is rare, and instead we just mass aoe them all. Very few twists are applied to any mechanics. In short, very little in the new content tries to get the player to step outside of normal play. So once see and understand the gimmick, its easy. As the gimmick is usually just an odd aoe pattern.