Thread: Upcoming ninja changes for 5.08 and 5.1

Originally Posted by Alistaire

...this is the main thing that needs to go. Hitting 5 buttons to do 1 action is still going to be clunky even when spread over several gcds. It's not like there's that many gcds in our rotation to accomodate this. Hell, openers would be completely unchanged by this.


Just give us the 1-button actions already.

I could understand that request for weaponskill combos, perhaps, but... Ninjutsu? You'd use up even more buttons to perform each action, at the risk of bunnying any of them if you queue your next weaponskill forgetting that you hit a 4-oGCD mudra/ninjutsu combination (e.g. Suiton) instead of just a 2 (e.g. Fuma). Of all places to keep buttons separate, Mudras are it.

Originally Posted by Alistaire

You really misunderstood here. I'm saying make suiton 1 button, along with the others. You'd end up with 7 on your hotbar vs the 4 we have now, but with all the other action pruning there's definitely room for it. And you probably wouldn't even place hyoton or fuma in this case.

Then I didn't misunderstand at all. That's exactly how I interpreted it, and exactly what I do not want.

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Then I didn't misunderstand at all. That's exactly how I interpreted it, and exactly what I do not want.

I'd be surprised if they did that considering the design of NIN. Since going into "mudra' doesn't allow you to WS they should just change it where Weaponskills are turned into the juts you want to perform. They could easily make it where you "cast" ninjutsu now so each jutsu would have a short timer from .5 secs to 1.5 seconds instead of something being reliant on human input.

As for why they don't put mudra on client side, it's because the main issue is the limitations of what a server can handle information wise. They tried as best as they could with mudra activation being as responsive as possible but they are now at the conclusion that in it's current design it hinders any forward momentum NIN would have as the level cap continues to increase.

It's painfully obvious this Expansion because of all the micro NIN has to deal with, micro that isn't hard to handle in theory however the moment you try to cast a jutsu and your mudra lags for a second before inputting and throws your whole flow off. By removing that variable of mudra input the current design of NIN could work because now it can flow quicker with jutsu being used as it should be designed for, in between weaponskills.

Since in theory with the 2 second weaponskill cooldown and the .5 second between each mudra, a NIN in theory should be able to cast a ninjutsu before their Weaponskill recharges but because of internet latency it's not possible.

Originally Posted by CrashofZenki

You kinda missed the point. The only way NIN was in a perfect comp was if the group itself consisted of a full group of amazing players. It all comes back to my statement of... Even in a 0.1% Chance of a NIN being OP, dont punish the 99,9% of the rest. And seeing how you reacted to my claims, I believe you are in the exact same boat as the other hivemind META this META that people. Just because it can be amazing, doesnt mean everyone NEEDS one. And quite frankly WANT one. If your DPS is average in your raid group, dont go for a NIN expecting the group to be carried by AMAZING rDPS. So cut the crap, and think for yourself and actually test things out.

And that comes back to my original concern... If they cant get people to understand that meta isnt always meta, then they should rework or remove TA. And make the DPS up to the current level of difficulty.

*Mic Drop*

I’ve never abided by meta nor do I ever, calling people hive minds for simply accounting for what a job can do isn’t true.

As I said I’d like TA to be nerfed as I do feel dancer just replaces it at this point as it’s just better in some situations and equal in others.

But the fact remains, you can’t let the high performance statics go wild for the sake of something being playable in pugs. It’s just not how balancing works.

And it won’t be 0.1%, look at monk. It’s reached a high level of dps with great utility and now we are seeing its parses 10 fold.

Every static would use a ninja if it became overpowered, while yes ninja is punished harder for bad team mates then other jobs. And yeah with this factor as I initially wrote. I’d like trick attack be halfed to reduce that. I don’t think just emptying dps jobs of utility is the way forward .

As a ninja main since 2.X, I am kind of feeling anxious and scared here.

I really don't know if I should be feeling concerned or relieved.

I don't want ninja to be dumbed down like DRK. I actually enjoy the complexity of Ninja.

Potency changes are welcomed, but will the entire Ninja rotation be changed due to upcoming mudra changes? (Please don't put mudras on a GCD, unless it's compensated with high potency.)

Will changing mudra input to client side fix clipping/lag/ping issues?

Trick attack is the only party utility Ninja has now. Will it be changed for the better or worse?

Despite the few issues plaguing ninja, I still really enjoy its complexity and rotation.

I really hope they put Ninjutsu on the GCD. I really like that about DNC steps and it would really help with ping. They could even make the mudras do some damage for some reason while you are doing them or just make the potencies insane like DNCs.

I’m hopeful that they change mudra for the better and am holding my opinion on it until I see it in action. There are several ideas out there for fixing mudras. I trust them to come up with something that works well for everyone. If it doesn’t then we’ll complain until they do lol.

My biggest concern is they mentioned two possible design decisions going forward for NIN. They are either going to nerf TA and buff NIN or remove TA completely.

I honestly feel that it is time to remove TA. For so long it has been a crutch not only for top tier but the overall view of the job in the community.

Really though, replace TA with SA. Bring back Sneak Attack with higher potency but have it’s positional requirement be the same as current TA. This change would keep Suiton useful and provide NINs with a decent skill for dps.

Whatever they do I hope Tin Chi Jin and Bunshin are not overlooked in the changes. They both need serious revision.

Originally Posted by Insoluble

I’m hopeful that they change mudra for the better and am holding my opinion on it until I see it in action. There are several ideas out there for fixing mudras. I trust them to come up with something that works well for everyone. If it doesn’t then we’ll complain until they do lol.

My biggest concern is they mentioned two possible design decisions going forward for NIN. They are either going to nerf TA and buff NIN or remove TA completely.

I honestly feel that it is time to remove TA. For so long it has been a crutch not only for top tier but the overall view of the job in the community.

Really though, replace TA with SA. Bring back Sneak Attack with higher potency but have it’s positional requirement be the same as current TA. This change would keep Suiton useful and provide NINs with a decent skill for dps.

Whatever they do I hope Tin Chi Jin and Bunshin are not overlooked in the changes. They both need serious revision.

I feel so puzzled on this. While I recon the trick attack issue, removing would sort of also remove an unique aspect of the job... I'm really on the fence with this one, because my worst fear is that at some point XIV jobs end in such a homogenized state that would resemble that other mmo's class design.

Originally Posted by Insoluble

My biggest concern is they mentioned two possible design decisions going forward for NIN. They are either going to nerf TA and buff NIN or remove TA completely.

I honestly feel that it is time to remove TA. For so long it has been a crutch not only for top tier but the overall view of the job in the community.

I have a feeling they may end up making it similar to the dances in the fact that you'll still give a damage vuln up to the enemy regardless of if you hit the positional or not, but on a weaker percentage if you fail the positional.