Bots are rampant on Spriggan (EU)

[MariaArvana]

I'm not sure why they can't just issue a cease and desist order when most of the said programs are paid services.

SE has been pretty aggressive about enforcing copyright infringement and other illegal practices when it comes to their properties.

More often than not, the bot companies and companies that create botting programs operate out of countries where cease and desist letters would do nothing beyond providing a piece of paper to instantly throw in the recycle bin. Lots of the countries they operate in just genuinely don't care, or in some cases, might even be profiting off of such things to the point of attempting legal action against the companies directly is basically pointless. Its infinitely easier for Square to target people infringing their copyright or illegal practices when they do it within the confines of a country that has actually good legal systems.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

I don't think a silly ToS like that would actually matter when SE's legal teams could easily crush them if they felt like it. I can only assume the websites Blizzard cracked down on for WoW had similar "protection", but it didn't stop them.

I guess the issue is that big companies generally don't even want to raise legal issues if it's not necessary in their eyes, so they very likely would rather just tolerate the bots then raise a case about it.

Though the most popular botting tool for XIV isn't even being run by a company; it's just a small project managed by a handful of different players who are very unlikely to have the legal grounds to even try to defend themselves and would be forced to simply desist if confronted.

yeah. this is all true. my response was mostly for actually cracking the software used to perform botting. Sqaure Enix themselves are not allowed to directly acquire or even reverse engineer any of this. that is, assuming the domain/software/website owner(s) has such terms in effect. if so, accessing those services would tip the bias in favor of whoever runs those sites. in this case it would be Square Enix playing the defendant... however unlikely that might actually may be. LOL! but keep in mind... if it could somehow be proven SE violated any of those terms, then it would easily become an open-and-shut case.

but yeah... i imagine a company would weigh their options on this. if it is financially worth it or not. one thing to note, whether we like or not, bots can also potentially bring in money for a game company too. so, not only would it cost SE to take action, but they would potentially lose revenue too. i don't know what Blizzard's numbers are like, but they have a limited free-2-play model. F2P is only up to level 20, but this would still allow botters an in to bot currency/things for selling. which would in turn cover their subscriptions fee's. well, this makes it highly unlikely Blizzard would actually lose any significant amount of revenue, or any at all. while FFXIV does have a free-trial there is also, unlike WoW, a gil cap. the botter(s) could likely achieve the same effect, but it would also probably take significantly longer.

also, in that case with Blizzard... that would have been a more direct attack. in other words, Blizzard would have taken action against them for the interference of their ability to pull in revenue. and not simply for the usage of any third-party software/tool.

on another note, it is actually easy to create Terms and Conditions/Terms of Service for any domain/website owner. however, if this botting tool form the small project place you speak of is not operated for the explicit use with FFXIV... then it is unlikely they have any terms set forth expressly forbidding Square Enix's access/usage.

[KageTokage]

on another note, it is actually easy to create Terms and Conditions/Terms of Service for any domain/website owner. however, if this botting tool form the small project place you speak of is not operated for the explicit use with FFXIV... then it is unlikely they have any terms set forth expressly forbidding Square Enix's access/usage.

It is specifically designed for XIV, but I still fail to see how making a ToS would protect them.

Couldn't those myriads of fan projects and other types of copyright infrigement Nintendo has shut down have been protected in the same manner?

It just doesn't sound right that any website can basically just say "Nuh uh, you guys can't do anything to us" and have it actually work that way.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

It is specifically designed for XIV, but I still fail to see how making a ToS would protect them.

Couldn't those myriads of fan projects and other types of copyright infrigement Nintendo has shut down have been protected in the same manner?

It just doesn't sound right that any website can basically just say "Nuh uh, you guys can't do anything to us" and have it actually work that way.

the ToS can be legally binding. if you were to visit the domain/website anywhere beyond the landing page, or in some cases the landing page requires you to agree to the ToS, or even sometimes the landing page is asking for your age - regardless, browsing any further then whatever first page you are brought to would constitute you as agreeing to those terms. it would protect them from certain actions, mostly just forbidding any employee from browsing the site or using any services that may be provided.

a website wouldn't have a company dead-to-rights for breaking those terms, and would have to file a lawsuit. they are obviously unlikely to ever ever win. but again, if they could prove an employee violated their ToS then a lawsuit wouldn't be so farfetched. on the other hand... reverse engineering software is an entirely different section of the ToS. they could actually prosecute for this. in the end, the only way around this would be to hire a freelancer. however, even with that being done. whatever information or work the freelancer provides couldn't be used in court.

as for Nintendo taking down ROM hosting sites... copyright infringement is something else entirely. that is a federal crime, regardless of any Terms and Conditions. the only time breaking the ToS could be a crime of any kind is if it explicitly either states so, or states something like you will prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. otherwise, any other ToS violations would have to be handled in a lawsuit.



also, as previously mention by MariaArvana. depending on the country certain things are hosted out of... there may or may not be anything that can be done. in this particular situation it would require either, a country itself making a declaration to take action ( which may even mean war ) or Square Enix attempting a lawsuit in their own courts of whatever country is responsible for hosting these services. which obviously won't end well.

it is no secret that certain countries don't deal with the UN or USA or other countries for the sole reason of keeping things like telemarketer scam phone calls in operation. i wouldn't doubt the same is true for like movie/tv show hosting sites, ROM download sites or even cheat/hack sites for botters.

[Vnolan]

Your reports do nothing. The report function is there to catch the rare occurrence like the Ungarmax "exploit" and to give the illusion that they enforce the ToS. Bots like those pictured in the OP will be dealt with in short time, but not because of any reports.

Reports for cheating and RMT go to the same place (the STF) . If you try and place a report to GMs about either, they'll take down the necessary information and file a report to the STF.

It's not just the RMT bots. There are a huge number of players using bots for crafting and gathering.

These are largely ignored because the STF cannot detect the use of their "third-party application". SE could change how they deal with player bots, but there has been no incentive to. They should spend money hiring people to ban players and reduce their number of subs? Why?

Speaking of Ungarmax, within a day or so of its knowledge becoming public, the servers were taken offline for maintenance and the "exploit" was patched. Within two weeks of it being known, SE determined who used it, how many times they used it, they handed out account penalties and Yoshi P made a detailed post about the incident. Of current player bots, there is a subset that use the skill "Preparation" on every node, whether they already have the buff applied or not. All SE would have to do is check max level players spamming the skill and start an investigation.

tl;dr No use in reporting

[KageTokage]

I'm honestly starting to wonder if the "bans for botting" figure is just some arbitrary number they made up on the spot just to make people think they're doing something.

It's troubling how unconcerned they seem to be about the RMT bots flooding the new servers, moreso when they have easy steps they could take toward addressing them.

[AlphaFox]

I'm honestly starting to wonder if the "bans for botting" figure is just some arbitrary number they made up on the spot just to make people think they're doing something.

It's troubling how unconcerned they seem to be about the RMT bots flooding the new servers, moreso when they have easy steps they could take toward addressing them.

It wouldn't shock me if the number is true, but knowing they most likely are just bots automated to keep making new accounts so they only lose a little bit of time. Much like ants, you can kill 100s of them but unless you destroy the colony from the inside, you are not going to achieve much.

[KageTokage]

I was under the impression that "bans for botting" was in reference to the other crowd of non-RMT bots that gather/craft/level/etc, since they're purging hundreds of RMT bots on a weekly basis and the most bloated figure is "RMT/illicit activites" which made me assume they were being shoved into that number.

Then again, 30 non-RMT bots banned across the entire game last week is like a drop in the bucket and unlikely to be noticed by anyone. There's probably close to 20 of them active every night on Cactuar alone and it's difficult to tell if they're getting banned or just not playing sometimes.

[MrKusakabe]

Square Enix is not entirely able to do this. these websites have actual protection by setting their policy/terms to disallow SE employees, and the like, access to the site. they can still access the site, but would be immediately violating the terms of these sites.

SE themselves are not allowed to touch the websites, or bots/services provided. Square Enix would have to hire freelancers.

Hey there,


I've just read this and the other responses and I am really not sure if you are for real or a funky hobby lawyer on an acid trip.


Before anything else: If you come up with "ToS", the ToS or EULA of this game says simply: "No cheating". So if Square Enix want to take action by taking down those sites and their tools, they can do it, as they are not the offenders. We are taking about the "potential steps", not what would be actually done here.


Then: Do you really think any court - if those bot creatores, Which are probably located and run in China, by Chinese people - would rule against Square Enix if they would reverse-engineer some of the tools (why would they want that in the first place, the simple advertisement of it being a cheating tool is probably enough to get it taken off the web) that are fraudulent and bad for business and reputation of a game/franchise, which equals to probably $xxx,xxx?


Terms of Services are always overriden by law. It would be kinda funny to hide the darknet behind a ToS saying: "No cops allowed", and the next time I create a funny website with fraudulent statements about persons or companies (accusing of rape, saying e.g. McDonald's has BSE in their beef etc.) a simple ToS entry saves me and cause billions of potential damage.


No, sorry, you weave back and forth of your statements, and I am pretty sure SE would out-finance every of those freaking criminal organizations that make their money solely by, uh, yeah, causing harm to another company. Or it must be a very good lawyer defending some random chinese farmbot organization to somehow make it clear they are doing good to the game..


Sincerely,

[Nemmar]

I am thinking this is a consequence of the bots but the queue for the jumping gates in the gold saucer keeps not popping. Happened today and yesterday.

I reported one of the FC's of bots, but one just has to search the FC list on Spriggan to see multiple nonsense name guilds with copys of nonsense randomized named lvl50's that look the same across classes. Obviously exploits. No investigation should even be necessary. It is obvious. Just grab and ban them all.