Goodbye Astro

[whiskeybravo]

There would not have been another group to speak of f they hadn't changed them. People like me who only took up AST because of the card changes would have continued to ignore AST in ShB were it not for the change.

Kinda seems like people who like the new card changes might've felt shafted, you know, with the whole "this is a healer rework expansion" aspect of things - if they left the crummy old card system in place there certainly would be people questioning it. My comment was meant to provide that bit of perspective.

I don't really have a dog in this race one way or the other, my main experience with AST is only raiding along side them, but from an outsiders perspective the changes make more sense than not. I feel a little bit with both sides, but the reality is most people only wanted DPS cards. To say the weaker cards were useful to use for fodder is just a rationalization to feel better about a bad design.

That being said, there seem to be core playability issues with AST moreso than what the cards do or don't do anymore. So the focus should be more on making the class enjoyable to play in action rather than the relatively unimportant aspect of the cards themselves.

[TankHunter678]

That being said, there seem to be core playability issues with AST moreso than what the cards do or don't do anymore. So the focus should be more on making the class enjoyable to play in action rather than the relatively unimportant aspect of the cards themselves.

If you ignored the card system entirely then ever since its first implementation in HW AST has always been a discount WHM with the option of being a heavily discounted SCH in terms of play. It was really simple, really straightforward, and really consistent on its output. It was also, if one still ignores the cards, boring to play because of this simplicity. What made the class stand out and what made the class enjoyable was the card system itself. The entire lore of the class being built around the cards and their effects. It was all about working with what you got and the possibilities presented. This produced high highs, with low lows you could mitigate. Every card in the majority of content was useful and provoked thought in an otherwise very simplistic boring kit, so one tried to plan around the cards. With the new card system all the thinking was removed from the class. You either push for optimal, or you begrudgingly settle for sub-optimal not worth your time.

Now it is just the basic simplistic base it always had with nothing to spice it up. The entire class would need a rework to make the class enjoyable to play outside of the card system.

Oh and the card effects were not unimportant, the entire lore of the class and selling point of the class was the card effects. Detaching the card effects from the lore is like detaching BLMs from their explosions.

[tikiwiki]

Kinda seems like people who like the new card changes might've felt shafted, you know, with the whole "this is a healer rework expansion" aspect of things - if they left the crummy old card system in place there certainly would be people questioning it. My comment was meant to provide that bit of perspective.

I don't really have a dog in this race one way or the other, my main experience with AST is only raiding along side them, but from an outsiders perspective the changes make more sense than not. I feel a little bit with both sides, but the reality is most people only wanted DPS cards. To say the weaker cards were useful to use for fodder is just a rationalization to feel better about a bad design.

in an rng class you kinda need a bad outcome though rn none of the outcomes feel good but bad ones are annoying, and before the rework there were dissapointing out comes but they werent frustrating to me but the good ones like several aoe balances felt great

[currentlemon]

Well, there it is. Scratch one job off my 'want to level' list. So long AST. Wish I could've played you in 4.X

[Brandedblade]

Yes, I have my own "bad" opinions that do not align with the "community-approved" ones.

The old system was an unreliable pile of RNG mess. You had Balance, two worse Balances and three utility cards. The (very few) moments where you needed one of the utility cards, you had 1/6 chance to get them.

The new system is something you can actually control. It's better for balancing and it has plenty of room for optimization. That's all.

This is my thought exactly. I completely get missing the highs, lows, and thrills of the old system, but I consider this one far healthier of a class design, enough room for RNG but not to the point it can utterly restrict the flow of the class.

[Miste]

This is my thought exactly. I completely get missing the highs, lows, and thrills of the old system, but I consider this one far healthier of a class design, enough room for RNG but not to the point it can utterly restrict the flow of the class.

People exaggerate the old system's RNG aspect...since AST had tools at its disposal to help with RNG like Shuffle and Sleeve Draw etc. It was not as unstable as some people assume.

[KanameYuuki]

People exaggerate the old system's RNG aspect...since AST had tools at its disposal to help with RNG like Shuffle and Sleeve Draw etc. It was not as unstable as some people assume.

And I may be wrong but I think I remember they changed several times cards odds behavior so it was "better", people still using the spire after spire hyperbole when in 4 years of playing that never happened to me even once and you always had redraw anyways, and let's not get on a high horse thinking this system is perfect, I keep playing dungeons with 2x of the same type of DPS and only cards of the opposite appearing, or burning redraws and getting the same seal over and over, hopefully they work on that.

[Arcari]

People exaggerate the old system's RNG aspect...since AST had tools at its disposal to help with RNG like Shuffle and Sleeve Draw etc. It was not as unstable as some people assume.

Unless even those tools decided to screw you over too.

"Alright, Sleeve Draw is ready to go, I bet I'm going to get something awesome!"
-activates Sleeve Draw-
-gets Spire in main hand, Spire in Spread, Expanded Royal Road, and Lady of Crowns-
"Darn it! Wait... I have Redraw ready. Come on Balance, I'll even take Spear at this point!"
-activates Redraw and gets an Ewer-
...-jumps off edge-

Admittedly, those were funny occurrences. But I don't miss them. :P

[TankHunter678]

Unless even those tools decided to screw you over too.

"Alright, Sleeve Draw is ready to go, I bet I'm going to get something awesome!"
-activates Sleeve Draw-
-gets Spire in main hand, Spire in Spread, Expanded Royal Road, and Lady of Crowns-
"Darn it! Wait... I have Redraw ready. Come on Balance, I'll even take Spear at this point!"
-activates Redraw and gets an Ewer-
...-jumps off edge-

Admittedly, those were funny occurrences. But I don't miss them. :P

Not to mention that if they wanted to help alleviate that they could have done 2 things:

1) Implement a second spread slot
2) Implement 2 abilities, one functions as a "stance" to "align" with a given constellation (card) and a second button to act upon that allowing you to forcibly draw that card once every minute.

All of a sudden that RNG is a lot less troubling and you can plan around situations even better.

[Arcari]

Not to mention that if they wanted to help alleviate that they could have done 2 things:

1) Implement a second spread slot
2) Implement 2 abilities, one functions as a "stance" to "align" with a given constellation (card) and a second button to act upon that allowing you to forcibly draw that card once every minute.

All of a sudden that RNG is a lot less troubling and you can plan around situations even better.

I've seen that second suggestion here before, but it was Diurnal/Nocturnal Sect that would have a direct impact on the cards you drew instead. Thought it was a neat idea.