MMORPGs How they have changed for the better? or worse?

[Nyvara]

I was thinking about this the other day, I used to as I'm sure many others played Everquest.

Back in the day..

If you pulled a pack with out CC you died

If you tried to pull a pack with out a puller you died.

You needed a buffer/debuffer in the group or you died.

If you survived more than two packs you felt like a champion!

And that was just leveling!

Soloing meant you could survive all of the above and folks looked at you like some kind of god. (And you acted like it. Folks that played or know Druids, Necros and Bards know what I'm saying )

At some point that all changed maybe it was WoW. Now it's pull all you can No CC needed only DPS.

Which is the better way. Or did people change at some point moving from Specialized classes and challenge to speed.

I guess I was missing the support classes. One reason I play RDM and played ( past tense) Bard. Although admittedly It's hard for me to count speed rezing as "Support".

[Zabuza]

I was thinking about this the other day, I used to as I'm sure many others played Everquest.

Back in the day..

If you pulled a pack with out CC you died

If you tried to pull a pack with out a puller you died.

You needed a buffer/debuffer in the group or you died.

If you survived more than two packs you felt like a champion!

And that was just leveling!

Soloing meant you could survive all of the above and folks looked at you like some kind of god. (And you acted like it. Folks that played or know Druids, Necros and Bards know what I'm saying )

At some point that all changed maybe it was WoW. Now it's pull all you can No CC needed only DPS.

Which is the better way. Or did people change at some point moving from Specialized classes and challenge to speed.

I guess I was missing the support classes. One reason I play RDM and played ( past tense) Bard. Although admittedly It's hard for me to count speed rezing as "Support".

How MMORPGs got better:
-Graphics
-Faster paced combat
-Voice acting
-More cinematic storytelling
-No deleveling for deaths(some may see this as a con).
-Glamour/Transmog system developed. This gave players interested in that a way to mix and match the look they wanted.
-Housing system.
-NPC companions that can fight with you.
-Mounts/Minions.
-Duty Finder allows players to find groups faster. It was no stretch to say a Dragoon in FFXI might wait all day and not get a party. I have also listed this as a con, however, for a different reason.
-Not having to compete with players for a mining/gathering node or quest mob.



How MMORPGs got worse
-Less threat in the world.
-More hub focused(vast majority of the playerbase is in hub towns ala Eulmore and Crystarium, rather than out in the world.)
-Less diverse range of difficult max level battle content(less challenge overall really).
-Artificial lockouts for loot. By capping you at a certain amount of gear or pieces of currency for the week, they force players with more time to be on par with casual players for the amount of gear they can obtain per week. It is a way to force them to stay subbed for longer and stops their pace cold.
-No unique stats on gear. This means that all gear simply has the same boring stats and is simply a flat increase.
-Vertical progression on gear instead of horizontal. This always renders the gear you worked for obsolete, and combined with no unique stats on gear it leaves the choices for gear options as very few. No situational pieces.
-Spec trees pruned or eliminated. A lot of MMOs used to give you a choice in how you wanted to build your class.
-Less depth in general. Elimination of much of the complexity that constituted MMOs.
-Duty Finder diluting the sense of community that is held at the very core of MMOs. Allowing you to run with strangers who you will never see again. No bonding, no socialization. Just go in, speed run the braindead easy content, then leave the dungeon.
-More solo focused. The MMO in MMORPG stands for Massive Multiplayer Online, and as such, group content and community should be the cornerstone. Friends and guildmates keep people subbed.
-Elements play no role at all anymore. Enemies typically do not have an elemental weakness, nor a weakness to a particular type of damage(piercing, blunt, etc.) Likewise, there are no enemies where you would need to be resistant to a particular element or type of attack. This creates less depth to fights.

As to whether MMOs have gotten better or worse, it depends on what type of person you are. I saw an analogy in a different thread that fit the MMO change perfectly. MMOs used to be the deep end of the pool. It wasn't as large as before, but what was there was done well and it was complex. MMOs have more and more turned into the shallow end of the pool. A larger amount of activities to do, but all easier to do and understand than when MMOs were the deep end. So it depends whether you would rather dabble in many different things, never spending much time in them, or if you would rather pour most of your being into mastering one or two deep aspects of a game.

[HWalsh]

How MMORPGs got better:
-Graphics
-Faster paced combat
-Voice acting
-More cinematic storytelling
-No deleveling for deaths
-Housing system.
-NPC companions that can fight with you.
-Mounts/Minions.
-Duty Finder.
-Not having to compete with players for a mining/gathering node or quest mob.



How MMORPGs got worse
-Less threat in the world.
-More hub focused
-Less diverse range of difficult max level battle content(less challenge overall really).
-Artificial lockouts for loot.
-Spec trees pruned or eliminated.
-Duty Finder.
-More solo focused.

(Snipped some from the above to fit in word count limits)

I generally agree with a large amount of this.

I don't see:
-Less threat in the world.
-More hub focused.
-Artificial lockouts for loot.
-Duty Finder
-More solo focused.

As cons.

I've always solo'ed for the most part unless I was tackling tough challenges. It was slower, had a lot more downtime, but I could do it.

Less threat is good, unless you were entering a dangerous area, but you shouldn't walk into the creepy dark forest without feeling danger.

Spec Trees - I miss these so much.

In DAoC (for example) my Blademaster had 3 offensive weapons to put points in (Blades, Blunt, or Pierce) 2 defensive abilities (Parry, Shield), and 1 supplementary ability (Celtic dual wield)

At level 50, I could, between spec points and accessory bonuses 2 of those to 50 with the remainder in a 3rd. They determined my special abilities. 2 Blademasters at level 50 might have completely different builds and abilities. (Special abilities required natural points so that made things hinky)

One person might max blunt, ignore Celtic dual, and max parry and shield to be more defensive.

Someone else might max Blades and Celtic Dual while throwing leftover points into Parry.

They would play differently and function differently and have different strengths and weaknesses. These also used different stats.

In modern mmorpgs one class is the same as every other member of that class at max level and in the same gear. That used to not be the case and I miss that customization.

[Misutoraru]

There are good and bad
The thing I am glad no longer appear in most modern MMO:
The grind, there were MSQ to help leveling but also huge level gap in between the only thing you could do was go kill XXX for thousands time till you reach the MSQ level and hit another gap. Don’t you dare to take a break for a day or two, because the community will be on different level and god help trying to find a party to grind.

The party, there were no PF/DF in those days, one could easily standing and shout for millenniums to finally get every class needed for a dungeon run or even just grind party, then John the tank have some family issue need to go, prepare to spend god know how long to fill up the role.

The loot, there were no restriction on loot, John Doe the magician can need on the full body armour you the tank so needed or the staff healer Jane can’t wait to upgrade to.

The market, there were no market board system, just shop open by the player characters and I have to click every single of them to check the price on the thing I want. It wasn’t fun for seller either, have to keep my PC on while I am away and pray I have good connection so my shop stay till my item sold.


Yet, there were also good things I miss about old MMO.

The buff and debuff, healer was not just heal and dps, we have to debuff we have to keep the buff up, and the debuff on dps/support make variety in dungeon run, like SWTOR, having two imperial agent can skip some trash and mechanics giving you slightly different way of playing.

The sub, in those days paying a monthly sub was - norm, there were no cash shop or stupid *gacha, developers either make good MMO that last long or they fail at the first sight. No shortsighted cash grabbing nonsense.

[SenorPatty]

Only better because the time these mmorpgs were fashioned in suited the demographic who had the time to spend on all that's listed.

[Qeilos]

Only better because the time these mmorpgs were fashioned in suited the demographic who had the time to spend on all that's listed.

This argument never makes sense. YOU may have less time now because you got older but what about the people who are the age you were then. Or are you just going to pretend that some massive paradigm shift happened in the world and EVERYONE universally has less time now for some reason.

[Jonnycbad]

This argument never makes sense. YOU may have less time now because you got older but what about the people who are the age you were then. Or are you just going to pretend that some massive paradigm shift happened in the world and EVERYONE universally has less time now for some reason.

The argument actually does make sense if you look at it from a holistic standpoint. Back in my day I was 15 or 16 when FFXI debuted. I was in highschool, circa 2003. Around this time, there was none of the following competing for my time in FFXI:
-Facebook
-Myspace
-Netflix
-Instagram
-Reddit


The lack of social media or other forms of electronic entertainment simply didn't exist to vie for my time. Now? Every game has online playability, we spend most of our time on our phones on various apps and on social media etc. Back then you could really immerse yourself in FFXI for 9 hours a day to make incremental progress. Most of today's MMO developers realize people generally don't want to spend a majority of their time doing only one thing. Therefore, they simplify and streamline the game's content to make it more readily consumable by not just hardcore players but casuals too. FFXI was an earlier MMO and thus they didn't have the data back then to act on it; however starting out was extremely hard about half-way through the game's lifetime. This is because around the mid 2000's, most players were at the level cap and there's no incentive to go and help new players with outdated content. There was nothing like Duty Roulette or level-syncing gear, and most level 75 players didn't have level 40 gear laying around to help a player through a level 40 instance.

Basically, back then, you had to spend about 7-9 hours a day to make any real progress in XI. You couldn't login for 1-2 hours and expect to get anywhere, as it could take 1-2 hours to simply find 5 other players to form a party with to just get some EXP, and even that'd maybe get you 1 level. By today's standards, we'd call anyone who plays more than 4-5 hours a day hardcore, and anyone who plays 1-2 casual, but back then you either played 5+ hours a day or not at all because it was futile to be casual back then. A waste of time and effort. Now players can login for 1-2 hours, do their dailys or a few dungeons and get some real level ups, then log out and go do something else and not really feel like they are lagging behind the entire community like people used to in XI.

[Nedkel]

Games are to play, not to live in them.

MMORPGs may be romantic and all flowers when people used to hard work for anything to get in them, but on the other side of coin, these games were full of depressed, broken people who had no other purpose in life other than waste more time into their second world where they are able acheive something. It was really unhealthy and dangerous hobby, i am so glad we have gone into the casual direction.
Today sure you could spend a lot of time at the game, but it is no longer a "must", mmorpgs these days are at last the games like they supposed to be, like in good old days of 8-16 bit consoles.

[Zabuza]

Games are to play, not to live in them.

MMORPGs may be romantic and all flowers when people used to hard work for anything to get in them, but on the other side of coin, these games were full of depressed, broken people who had no other purpose in life other than waste more time into their second world where they are able acheive something. It was really unhealthy and dangerous hobby, i am so glad we have gone into the casual direction.
Today sure you could spend a lot of time at the game, but it is no longer a "must", mmorpgs these days are at last the games like they supposed to be, like in good old days of 8-16 bit consoles.

I am glad you have decided for everyone what an MMORPG needs to be. Perhaps these 'depressed, broken people' you spoke of sought an escape. Perhaps their circumstances made it so that they couldn't go out into the real world(physical disability) or did not wish to(social issues). Or perhaps it was simply more stimulating them to play complex games that engaged their brain. Now, a place where those players could feel like they had a home has been taken away. Now, all that exists are casual MMOs really. People have made RL friends and even significant others from these second homes that you criticize. I guess what I'm trying to say is, who are you to decide how others should spend their time?

[Nedkel]

I am glad you have decided for everyone what an MMORPG needs to be. Perhaps these 'depressed, broken people' you spoke of sought an escape. Perhaps their circumstances made it so that they couldn't go out into the real world(physical disability) or did not wish to(social issues). Or perhaps it was simply more stimulating them to play complex games that engaged their brain. Now, a place where those players could feel like they had a home has been taken away. Now, all that exists are casual MMOs really. People have made RL friends and even significant others from these second homes that you criticize. I guess what I'm trying to say is, who are you to decide how others should spend their time?

And yet you are here posting, at the forum of a ultra casual friendly game, this is pretty ironic.
Old mmorpgs, i do not miss them even a bit, they were punishing and stressful, and sorry to break your world but it was not good for young minds at all, the mmorpg i played in my young years were causing a ton of stress and kids were fighting in real life because of that game. There were several cases in my country of kids attacking their own parents because they interupted them in playing one of the "old style" mmorpg.
It was bad, often pay2win and was forcing youths to hardcore playing to keep competitve, often playing and ignoring school, not passing from class to class because of the game.
I was raised in those times, i experienced bad sides of online gaming, it made its terrible damage to our society, and you cannot denny this fact.
They were new, addicting and was hard to distiguish real life from online game for kids who played them, i knew in first person a boy who tried commit suicide because he has been hacked in Tibia.
These old games were like drugs given away for free, terribly designed and made to lure in you to spend all your time in them.