Doton on Bosses, am i missing something?

[Naryoril]

I see ninjas using Doton on bosses a lot, i'd guess about half of the ninjas use it. Why? As far as i understand, Doton deals a total of 270 potency to every target, IF the target stays within the Doton for the entire 24 seconds. Also, Doton needs 3 mudra to cast. While Raiton needs 2 mudra and deals 400 (formerly 360) potency in damage.
Are all these ninjas using the wrong skill or am i missing something?

[cactuarzzzz]

You forgot to count The potency from DOT

[Naryoril]

You forgot to count The potency from DOT

What do you mean? The effect description of Doton on the Lodstone is this:

Creates a patch of corrupted earth, dealing damage with a potency of 45 to any enemies who enter.
Duration: 24s
Additional Effect: Heavy +40%

According to this, Doton has contrary to many other skills with dot effects no initial damage, only the dot portion. Afaik dots tick every 3 seconds, which makes 6 ticks at 45 potency, so 270 potency in total per enemy inside Doton for its whole duration.

[mosaicex]

It does 8 ticks of damage (yes, 24s dot has 8 ticks (24/3 = 8, I do not know why you got 6 instead), if you don't believe just test it on training dummy), so 360 potency in total.
Anyway, most NIN who use Doton on single target use it as finisher for their Ten Chi Jin. Fuma (280) + Katon (250) + Doton (360) = 890 Potency in total
If you do Fuma (280) + Raiton (400) + Suiton (130) = 810 Potency in total.
That being said, I do not religiously play NIN so I can't really say how much Meisui Suiton worth in grand scheme of things, but that's the gist of why would people use Doton on single target.

[Naryoril]

Yeah, basic math fail, and i was even wondering "didn't raiton and doton have the same potency in the past?", sorry.

Anyway, i also see this a lot for ninja before level 70 (for example in the lvl 50 and 60 alliance raids), where Ten Chi Jin isn't available. I haven't played Ninja since ShB, but it seems Meisui gives you 40 ninki, Bhavacakra costs 80 ninki with a potency of 500, so the 40 ninki are worth 250 potency. All skills related to this are oGCD. So the total potency of the Fuma + Raiton + Suiton Ten Chi Jin comes to 1060 potency, unless you are level 70 oder 71. This is against the 890 potency of the doton version IF the boss stays inside the doton the whole time, which they hardly ever do. If the boss misses 2 of these 8 ticks, the Suiton version comes out ahead, even if you don't consider meisui.

[Shurrikhan]

What do you mean? The effect description of Doton on the Lodstone is this:



According to this, Doton has contrary to many other skills with dot effects no initial damage, only the dot portion. Afaik dots tick every 3 seconds, which makes 6 ticks at 45 potency, so 270 potency in total per enemy inside Doton for its whole duration.

24 seconds = 8 ticks -> 360 potency, same as an old Raiton. Without Meisui (250) or Trick Attack (400+massive_rDPS), Fuma-Katon-Doton (280+250+360=890) is now better 80 potency better than Fuma-Raiton-Suiton (280+400+130=810), which is why the OP might see it in stationary single-target fights from NINs after level 70 and less than 72.

[TaiyouSeishin]

Could also just be habit. (They used to be the same potency.) I remember Doton doing more than a raiton, because those 8 ticks each has a chance to crit. Using kass before it made all 8 ticks crit

[Jonnycbad]

Doesn't Doton do more than Raiton with Kassatsu, because Kassatsu makes all the ticks of the DoT crit?

[Naryoril]

Why would the crit thing make any difference? Let's say a crit deals 50% extra damage (i don't know the number), and every tick of doton crits, it will deal a total potency of 8 * 45 * 1.5 = 540. If you use raiton instead and it crits, you deal 400 * 1.5 = 600 potency damage. Or do dot ticks get more extra damage from crits than normal skills?

[TaiyouSeishin]

Why would the crit thing make any difference? Let's say a crit deals 50% extra damage (i don't know the number), and every tick of doton crits, it will deal a total potency of 8 * 45 * 1.5 = 540. If you use raiton instead and it crits, you deal 400 * 1.5 = 600 potency damage. Or do dot ticks get more extra damage from crits than normal skills?

All of what instated was pre-ShB. Its why i said it was a habit. Sorry i didnt clarify.

I referred to when doton would actually scale higher. And kass used to make the next ninjutsu crit instead of what it does now