Fix Bushin and Give Dripping Blades Back.

[Nielk]

From what i saw Bushin in the beta Copied your weapon skills. and combos. now it just does 100 potency no matter what you do and doesn't copy your combos and last i checked live letter said they got rid of Duality for Bushin to copy our move set completely so why was the combos from bunshin removed. its a lvl 80 move that feels like its not even worth pressing sometimes....

Dripping Blades was Flat 25% physical Dps increase for Ninja melee/Shuriken. it was removed for no reason entirely. and nothing was there to replace it. its like if you removed monks stances entirely and just said yeah thats it. suck it monks... like wth?

Ps. If you say but trick attack okay. well stormblood and heavenward were ninja was already balanced how do you mess up balancing issues this bad seems to be on purpose for some reason.

[ForteNightshade]

Ps. If you say but trick attack okay. well stormblood and heavenward were ninja was already balanced how do you mess up balancing issues this bad seems to be on purpose for some reason.

Ninja wasn't really balanced though. The only job that gave it any competition was Dragoon because no Bard or Machinist alive wanted to raid without piercing. This is among the primary reasons both dominated the melee meta for four years. That being said, I do think they overcompensated for Trick Attack, and are now afraid to buff Ninja because of it. With the shift to rDPS on FFlogs though, Trick may not dominate like it once did. Regardless, Ninja has more issues than just damage. I honestly feel like it needs the 4.1 Warrior treatment. If I were to point to some glaring issues off the top of my head.

- Meisui is a newbie trap. It's a DPS loss unless Bushin is about to come off CD and you don't have enough Ninki... but you also can't over cap or again, damage loss. Just... very poorly thought out.
- Far too much clipping. Ninja is not a job designed to double weave yet its opener has more double weaves than friggin' Dragoon; the former weave king.
- Bushin. Just... everything about Bushin, really. Awkward CD means it lines up with nothing. It offers crap all for damage and yeah...

I wouldn't even be opposed to Ninja having low damage if they fixed these fundamental issues. Granted, I still wonder if it's time for Trick Attack to just die off.

[TaiyouSeishin]

Ninja wasn't really balanced though. The only job that gave it any competition was Dragoon because no Bard or Machinist alive wanted to raid without piercing. This is among the primary reasons both dominated the melee meta for four years. That being said, I do think they overcompensated for Trick Attack, and are now afraid to buff Ninja because of it. With the shift to rDPS on FFlogs though, Trick may not dominate like it once did. Regardless, Ninja has more issues than just damage. I honestly feel like it needs the 4.1 Warrior treatment. If I were to point to some glaring issues off the top of my head.

- Meisui is a newbie trap. It's a DPS loss unless Bushin is about to come off CD and you don't have enough Ninki... but you also can't over cap or again, damage loss. Just... very poorly thought out.
- Far too much clipping. Ninja is not a job designed to double weave yet its opener has more double weaves than friggin' Dragoon; the former weave king.
- Bushin. Just... everything about Bushin, really. Awkward CD means it lines up with nothing. It offers crap all for damage and yeah...

I wouldn't even be opposed to Ninja having low damage if they fixed these fundamental issues. Granted, I still wonder if it's time for Trick Attack to just die off.

Honestly, they should really just make trick attack more situational, or nerf, or both, and bring ninjas dps up, by buffing, cleaning up the john madden scribble. The issue is really that its a dps utility, if the utility doesnt end in increased damage, its not performing its job, and the nins own dps is whats nullifying it.

This is the problem when you have raw/powerful dps utilities, dont compensate? Class is too powerful, compensate, then utility becomes pointless (outside of making your individual numbers look good before figuring for rdps)

[Nielk]

Ninja wasn't really balanced though. The only job that gave it any competition was Dragoon because no Bard or Machinist alive wanted to raid without piercing. This is among the primary reasons both dominated the melee meta for four years. That being said, I do think they overcompensated for Trick Attack, and are now afraid to buff Ninja because of it. With the shift to rDPS on FFlogs though, Trick may not dominate like it once did. Regardless, Ninja has more issues than just damage. I honestly feel like it needs the 4.1 Warrior treatment. If I were to point to some glaring issues off the top of my head.

- Meisui is a newbie trap. It's a DPS loss unless Bushin is about to come off CD and you don't have enough Ninki... but you also can't over cap or again, damage loss. Just... very poorly thought out.
- Far too much clipping. Ninja is not a job designed to double weave yet its opener has more double weaves than friggin' Dragoon; the former weave king.
- Bushin. Just... everything about Bushin, really. Awkward CD means it lines up with nothing. It offers crap all for damage and yeah...

I wouldn't even be opposed to Ninja having low damage if they fixed these fundamental issues. Granted, I still wonder if it's time for Trick Attack to just die off.

Bushin , used to give Combo finishers like double shadowfang/AE finishers now the clone is just a waste to use even if its little dps increase drk clone does more dmg : Drk clone 50k / Nin clone 30k. last i checked dps is suppose to be higher than tanks.

[Duskane]

NIN was pretty interchangeable with monk once it got fixed in SB

Samurai stigma and ages to get fixed was more a problem than trick

[Kaeoni]

- Meisui is a newbie trap. It's a DPS loss unless Bushin is about to come off CD and you don't have enough Ninki... but you also can't over cap or again, damage loss. Just... very poorly thought out.

On single target, with Trick attack down isn't Meisui fine? With Ten Chi Jin you have 2 options, ending with Suiton or Doton. Sure, we all know Doton is universally better if they are standing in 1 spot;

Ending in Suiton is - 420+ 600 + 195 = 1,215
Ending in Doton with all ticks is - 420 + 375 + 540 = 1,335 I believe.

However, with Bhavacakra being 500 potency, 40 Ninki = 250 potency since Bhavacakra is 80 Ninki to cast. So 1,215 + 250 = 1,465 which is higher than Doton combo with all ticks.
I don't know about Bunshin potency, but even with Bhavacakra being your dump on bosses when it's down, i don't think Meisui is necessarily a noob trap. I don't think any Ninja specifically casts Suiton just to Meisui it (if you do, don't ofc). It's also incredibly difficult to over-cap your Ninki with Suiton lasting 20 seconds now. Not only can you cast it preemptively to set things up better for Trick attack, but you have time to build up more Ninki to dump it so you can Meisui without throwing Ninki into the wind. You can even drop 2 Ninki abilities inside a 10sec Trick attack window if you're playing around things right. I think Meisui isn't necessarily in need of a re-work/deletion. Doton Finisher isn't always best on single target even before this expansion. Stuff moves or needs to move and even if it was a potency loss, Suiton finisher was reliable. Ofc Trick attack off your Ten Chi Jin Suiton finisher if you can, but the stars are not always aligned.

Again, It's our least used ability, (Meisui) it isn't the best skill in the world, and isn't used every single time it's off Cooldown, BUT I don't feel like every ability needs to be useful all the time. I feel it has a purpose with Ten Chi Jin's Suiton finisher.

Lemme know if I'm wrong naturally... And you can call me a noob for using it for the above reasons. But I feel like my application of this ability isn't incorrect, that is unless my napkin math is incorrect.

Don't get me wrong, Ninja has some issues this expansion and i'm not happy that nearly everyone out damages me or out contributes me, or both, but unless I'm not calculating Doton Dots correctly, Meisui isn't one of those issues, It's just not what some people seem to want.

[Laur1x]

Yup, and completely gut TA too. My NIN is perma-benched until they make some major changes.