Thread: First week of 5.05, healer performance for E4S

Originally Posted by DawnSolaria

What I would like isnt you explaining me how damage buff works, what I would like is a set of stats that backs up your claim that buffs will contribute increasingly patch to patch without other external factors. You telling me to trust you on buff being broken is like me wanting you to believe white mages is stupidly OP right now.

.........math?

Gear goes up with patch releases. Damage potential increases in a more-or-less linear fashion as item level goes up. Raid buffs are percentages, which make them multiplicative increases. Yes, WHM does more personal damage as item level increases. So does SCH and AST personal damage. And everyone else's damage. This has been true for several expansions now. Absent kit adjustments, jobs with buffs have their rDPS increase faster than jobs without. Now, this doesn't mean that buff jobs will overtake non buffers if the initial gap is wide enough, but basic math says buff jobs gain efficiency faster as gear gets better for basically the same reason direct hit is better early in an expansion and crit is better later.

Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

As ilv scales so will ASTs contribution to the raid.

Yes and so does the difference between ast and whm personal dps. If ast is behind right now, ast will continue to be behind. The only way that an ast's contribution will scale up to match a whm's raid contribution is if all dps start to do a lot more dps than they are currently doing without a gear upgrade. Then what you would say is true. I don't see this being very likely though.

Originally Posted by Lagomorph

Yes and so does the difference between ast and whm personal dps. If ast is behind right now, ast will continue to be behind. The only way that an ast's contribution will scale up to match a whm's raid contribution is if all dps start to do a lot more dps than they are currently doing without a gear upgrade. Then what you would say is true. I don't see this being very likely though.

I don't think you can compare it that way. The gap between AST pDPS and WHM pDPS will likely remain the same in proportions. But what Exiled says is that gear upgrade (which has to happen as weeks go by) favours AST raid contribution.

Divination will still be 6% and cards will still be 6% or 8% but the base damage output will go up with gear, you can't deny that. So 4 DPS passing from base damage 100 to base damage 120 as the iLvl go up, will completely negate WHM's current pDPS contribution, because of how card (and buffs in general) scale and multiply.

Just popping in to say that pick rate does not equal balance. It can merely be a symptom of good or poor balance. It is also merely a symptom of how pleased people are or aren't with a class.
On top of the fact that people had probably already decided what they wanted to be for prog this tier and most of them are probably waiting til after they've cleared the tier to try it out proper during raid times.

Originally Posted by Halik

With the 5.05 buffs I haven't felt weak but the cards are a chore now, because using any particular card just amounts to some damage.

Probably not the place for this particular topic, and I'm no healer main anyway, or high end player, or anything of the sort. But. Couldn't it be argued that the old cards really just amounted to "some damage" after a fashion? More crits, faster attacks, damage, defense leading to less healing leading to more personal damage. New system just dumps the middle ground and delivers the damage itself.

Idk. You're not wrong in that the feeling isn't the same. Just devil's advocating here.

Originally Posted by Hasrat

Probably not the place for this particular topic, and I'm no healer main anyway, or high end player, or anything of the sort. But. Couldn't it be argued that the old cards really just amounted to "some damage" after a fashion? More crits, faster attacks, damage, defense leading to less healing leading to more personal damage. New system just dumps the middle ground and delivers the damage itself.

Idk. You're not wrong in that the feeling isn't the same. Just devil's advocating here.

Some people enjoyed the """versatility""" of having extra effects like Defense up and such. While I won't deny there weren't situations when those were handy, the RNG tied to AST made it quite difficult to fully benefit from these.
Sure, placing a Bole on a Tank short of CDs was helpful is some cases. But one could argue that Balance on a DPS would be equally good because the mobs would go down quicker.
And you can work around all cards that way to get to the conclusion that "yeah, balance on DPS is better".

In endgame content, you would fish Balance / Spear (Arrow) in AoE and nothing else really. Because the effect of Bole, Ewer and Spire were more efficiently covered by things like Addle / Dismantle / Feint / Refresh / Mana Shift / Tactician / Motivation and so on.

So the idea behind the new cards makes sense. It's just that it's not so "entertaining" anymore I guess. It's efficient but it's less fun.

Originally Posted by Deceptus

With this few data points, I wouldn't be getting pitchforks ready IMHO. Give it a bit.

If they would have been properly balanced, you would see a disparity of say 40/35/25 wich would be already just fine. However, for E4 we are looking at a disparity closer to 48/48/2 (with other floors just showing the same pattern), wich in fact is a huge evidence that there are fundamental failures in their balance and job design. And sorry to say this, but looking at this inability is nothing but depressing, especially after they stated they want to take all this time to balance them properly. Now we not only STILL having huge balancing issues within the healer roles, but also having AST left as a complete construction site. At this point i woudnt be surprised if we get another emergency fix in 5.1 or 5.2 that buffs AST cards potency back to 20% (like in HW) so that people once again even remember this job exists.

Originally Posted by Lagomorph

Yes and so does the difference between ast and whm personal dps.

WHMs personal dps will increase but that's it. ASTs personal dps AND raid utility will increase. It's going to even out over time and that's the point, to be close by the time people are better geared. Raid utility has been king since HW and was the determining factor for every meta setup. They're attempting to tone that back a bit.