Changes to subtarget.

[AndySolace]

/target NPC "name" should never be introduced.

Other then that some good points in this thread.

[Jinko]

Exactly!

This change was made to bring the game in line with other keyboard/mouse friendly MMOs where you click on the target, then press the spell. Two simple actions.

I do not want to have to hit enter again every time I want to cure someone.

Why don't you heal in the following way:-

Select spell and click name in party list.. its basically the same thing.. d'oh

Why would you even by hitting enter when you have a mouse to confirm the spell with, try it sometime you might surprise yourself how much easier it is.

/target NPC "name" should never be introduced.

Care to explain why, have you even tried targeting Myrmidon guards in CC ?

Or just put a toggle by spell type and we'd all be happy.

Sure that sounds like a good idea.

[Mychael]

Why don't you heal in the following way:-

Select spell and click name in party list.. its basically the same thing..

What if I want to click the name then the spell? (Not that I'm a mouse user...) Why can't I play my way? Why does everyone have to play your way? There is no "best" playstyle; while I would totally support you if you asked for the ability to toggle subtarget separately for the different types of spells you mentioned, asking them to change it to your way isn't really a good argument--if they did, Rowyne and I (and probably several others) would just be on the forums asking them to change it again.

Care to explain why, have you even tried targeting Myrmidon guards in CC ?

On selbina, right after 1.21, there were 50~100 people out killing Daddy Longlegs for the BLM quest. Can you imagine how broken it would be if you just spread out eight party members and had them to spam this macro:

/target NPC "Daddy Longlegs"
/ac "Thundara" <t>

Broken, imo.

But we really don't have any competitive open world NMs. This makes me sad, but if it's going to stay this way, then why not, I guess?

Sure that sounds like a good idea.

It was my idea first. D=!

[Jinko]

Well yea I see your point concerning the target name, but still feel the benefits outweigh the negatives.

As for healing sure you can heal any way you like, but I'm just saying from my experience I find using both keyboard and mouse to heal far superior to just keyboard or just mouse.

I am hoping in 2.0 there will be healing addons designed for mouse click healing which would be even more intuitive.

Besides if you are a keyboard only healer wouldn't it be better to make and use macros ?

Yup it was your idea first, Kudos, although I doubt it will get implemented ..

[Rowyne]

Why don't you heal in the following way:-

Select spell and click name in party list.. its basically the same thing.. d'oh

Why would you even by hitting enter when you have a mouse to confirm the spell with, try it sometime you might surprise yourself how much easier it is.

Because I was a raid healer in WoW for four years, and that is how you heal with the stock UI (disregarding mouseover addons, etc). You select the target, then select the spell. If you do it the other way around (like you suggested) with the auto self-cast option turned on, you're just going to be casting a whole lot of spells on yourself.

So, yes, I am a keyboard & mouse user. In fact, Yoshi-P said he was putting this option in the game because that is how kb/mouse gameplay generally works in modern MMOs.

I only used 'hit enter' as an example because it is the most clunky way to get through what is already a clunky confirmation. Whether you hit enter, click with your mouse, or press a button on your keypad, it's an extra step. And wanting to revert to subtargetting always on, taking away a toggle which removed that redundancy, would only disappoint the many people who were posting some very positive feedback about this change.

Again, if it is to make healing yourself easier, it would make more sense to do it the way many modern MMOs do and give us the option of auto self-cast. If you cast a beneficial spell on an invalid target (enemy or no target), it will automatically cast on yourself.

[Jinko]

Because I was a raid healer in WoW for four years, and that is how you heal with the stock UI (disregarding mouseover addons, etc). You select the target, then select the spell. If you do it the other way around (like you suggested) with the auto self-cast option turned on, you're just going to be casting a whole lot of spells on yourself.

So, yes, I am a keyboard & mouse user. In fact, Yoshi-P said he was putting this option in the game because that is how kb/mouse gameplay generally works in modern MMOs.

I only used 'hit enter' as an example because it is the most clunky way to get through what is already a clunky confirmation. Whether you hit enter, click with your mouse, or press a button on your keypad, it's an extra step. And wanting to revert to subtargetting always on, taking away a toggle which removed that redundancy, would only disappoint the many people who were posting some very positive feedback about this change.

Again, if it is to make healing yourself easier, it would make more sense to do it the way many modern MMOs do and give us the option of auto self-cast. If you cast a beneficial spell on an invalid target (enemy or no target), it will automatically cast on yourself.

I played Wow for 4-5 years also, never used the stock UI (good god how on earth could you raid heal using that, that's masochistic) I used healing addons most of the time, 1 click solutions.

Even so, I used macros in 11, something different in WoW and im healing differently again in 14, its all about adapting to the game.

I'm not saying don't do it that way though heal how you wana heal, I just think selecting the skill and then clicking on the players name in the party list to be better (until we get addons that is)

[Rowyne]

I played Wow for 4-5 years also, never used the stock UI (good god how on earth could you raid heal using that, that's masochistic) I used healing addons most of the time, 1 click solutions.

Even so, I used macros in 11, something different in WoW and im healing differently again in 14, its all about adapting to the game.

I'm not saying don't do it that way though heal how you wana heal, I just think selecting the skill and then clicking on the players name in the party list to be better (until we get addons that is)

LOL, yeah, I had a lot of people ask me that question. I tried a lot of UI addons and healing addons, and most of them that heavily modded the UI I just couldn't get used to, no matter how much I tried. When WoW changed their stock raid frames (in Cata, I think it was) so that it emulated Grid, I pulled my hair out for like a month until I got used to it.

I do understand what you're saying about having to adapt to each game. Goodness knows when I left FFXI after four years of using a keyboard-only setup and went to WoW, using a mouse as part of my standard gameplay took some getting used to. But one thing that has plagued this game from the get-go is trying to do things differently for the sake of uniqueness alone. So Yoshi-P has been trying to bring this game in line with certain MMO standards. And the target-first spell-second method is pretty much a standard in modern kb/mouse MMOs (you may be able to get around that in WoW with addons, but you can't with addon-free games like Aion and SWTOR).

Everyone wants to play in a way that's comfortable for them. That's why options are good. I don't feel that forcing healers to use a subtarget is the answer. I think options like auto self-cast and splitting out subtargeting options for curative/offensive magic may provide that middle ground to make just about everyone happy.

[Enfarious]

Is there ever going to be a fix to when Subtargeting is off and you are targeted on an enemy and attempt to cure yourself? As it stands now you have to change the target back to yourself just to cure, then back to the target to resume attacking, making subtarget off more of a nuisance than anything.

2 options here:
config > targeting > subtarget actions
make a macro 1 line: /action "Cure" <stpc>

This is what macros are made for, not just switching class/job.

That whole /targetnpc "name" hopefully won't happen, and using /action "npcname" shouldn't either, it would open up the whole wall between the open door and open window for NM-claim-bots, it'll be bad enough when someone finds a way to track/target them before they spawn, making it easier to claim is not something you want to do.