Issue with TBN

[ArianeEwah]

So I take it that you are using Dark Mind, Rampart, Shadow Wall, and Missionary on cooldown. Because by that logic if you don't, then you are wasting mitigation.

By your logic I should never use TNB because I have other tools to mitigate? Let's just remove TBN then, it's niche!

[Cabalabob]

TBN is not an interesting job mechanic, it’s just poor design. No other tank has to deal with this issue. If you have time you can throw out heart of stone, nascent flash or intervention and have it off CD again when you need it at no cost. The closest thing to TBN is intervention and PLD can fill their gauge enough to have a spare.

DRK can’t use TBN whenever because if it doesn’t break it’s a dps loss. So where other tanks can use their quick mitigation on fluff damage or whenever they feel like it. DRK is limited basically to tankbusters or heavy raid AoEs. And does it get anything to compensate for this drawback? No, it has the worst overall mitigation of all tanks.

TBN itself isn’t the problem though. TBN is fine in AoE because you can pretty much use it on CD and KNOW it will break from all the incoming damage or for tankbusters for the same reason. But DRK sorely needs a short recast fluff mitigation skill to make up for the fact TBN is garbage in any other situation. Even if it was a much weaker mitigation skill that shared a recast with TBN just something you could throw on yourself or the other tank in situations where you know you can’t use TBN within the next 15 seconds because there’s not enough incoming damage it would go a long way.

[ReiMakoto]

By your logic I should never use TNB because I have other tools to mitigate? Let's just remove TBN then, it's niche!

The answer is use it when its needed, like a strong raidwide or tank buster, if youre using it to mitigate fluff then youre using it wrong because fluff is covered by healer regens anyway so youre not saving anyone any casts by doing it

[ReiMakoto]

TBN is not an interesting job mechanic, it’s just poor design. No other tank has to deal with this issue. If you have time you can throw out heart of stone, nascent flash or intervention and have it off CD again when you need it at no cost. The closest thing to TBN is intervention and PLD can fill their gauge enough to have a spare.

DRK can’t use TBN whenever because if it doesn’t break it’s a dps loss. So where other tanks can use their quick mitigation on fluff damage or whenever they feel like it. DRK is limited basically to tankbusters or heavy raid AoEs. And does it get anything to compensate for this drawback? No, it has the worst overall mitigation of all tanks.

TBN itself isn’t the problem though. TBN is fine in AoE or for tankbusters because you can pretty much use it on CD and KNOW it will break from all the incoming damage. But DRK sorely needs a short recast fluff mitigation skill to make up for the fact TBN is garbage in any other situation. Even if it was a much weaker mitigation skill that shared a recast with TBN just something you could throw on yourself or the other tank in situations where you know you can’t use TBN within the next 15 seconds because there’s not enough incoming damage it would go a long way.

If youre not fighting trash why do you need it for fluff anyway when healers have regens for fluff? With shelltron or heart of stone youre getting 1 or 2 autos of fluff mitgated, thats not really enough to save anyone a heal cast, if it is enough cos the autos are strong enough then it will break so its a non issue

[ArianeEwah]

The answer is use it when its needed, like a strong raidwide or tank buster, if youre using it to mitigate fluff then youre using it wrong because fluff is covered by healer regens anyway so youre not saving anyone any casts by doing it

You just stated the issue with TBN yourself. It is the only short mitigation CD of all tanks that is not, and should not be used for fluff mitigation. Just as Cabalabob said a post above, DRK does not get anything for any missing fluff mitigation. GNB has HoS and Camouflage, WAR RawI/Nascent Flash and ToB, PLD Sheltron and passive block, and every single one of them is FREE. DRK Dark Mind is NOT fluff mitigation, and every other CD has a long recast or role action, and doesn't do any better than other tanks mitigation tools.

DRK got the short end in terms of fluff mitigation... (and unfortunately DPS again, too.)

[Cabalabob]

If youre not fighting trash why do you need it for fluff anyway when healers have regens for fluff? With shelltron or heart of stone youre getting 1 or 2 autos of fluff mitgated, thats not really enough to save anyone a heal cast, if it is enough cos the autos are strong enough then it will break so its a non issue

Because mitigation adds up. Why would anyone bring a DRK when you can bring a PLD and GNB and mitigate 10-20% extra fluff damage every 30 seconds? If we consider an auto attack to do about 10k damage (not enough for 2 of them to break TBN so DRK won’t use it) PLD lowers it by 10% with intervention mitigating 1k (GNB would do even more because it can add shielding too). Assuming you use it on CD that’s about 2 auto’s every 30 seconds getting mitigated for around 2k. Over the course of a 10 min fight that’s 40k extra damage mitigated. That’s practically a TBN and a half going to waste because DRK can’t use it where the others can.

[Starkbeaumont]

trying to find issues with drk where there are non, again, hmh?
i bet no pld is using sheltron on cd

[ReiMakoto]

You just stated the issue with TBN yourself. It is the only short mitigation CD of all tanks that is not, and should not be used for fluff mitigation. Just as Cabalabob said a post above, DRK does not get anything for any missing fluff mitigation. GNB has HoS and Camouflage, WAR RawI/Nascent Flash and ToB, PLD Sheltron and passive block, and every single one of them is FREE. DRK Dark Mind is NOT fluff mitigation, and every other CD has a long recast or role action, and doesn't do any better than other tanks mitigation tools.

DRK got the short end in terms of fluff mitigation... (and unfortunately DPS again, too.)

God forbid tanks actually have some niche in the homogenized system, drk excels in strong personal mitigation, tbn attributing to that, and not fluff. And ill point out again, fluff mitigation is near pointless due to how effortlessly its healed through. Youre right in saying its free to use the short cd on fluff if you can afford to, but its negligible amount actually being useful

[TheRealQuah]

Because mitigation adds up. Why would anyone bring a DRK when you can bring a PLD and GNB and mitigate 10-20% extra fluff damage every 30 seconds? If we consider an auto attack to do about 10k damage (not enough for 2 of them to break TBN so DRK won’t use it) PLD lowers it by 10% with intervention mitigating 1k (GNB would do even more because it can add shielding too). Assuming you use it on CD that’s about 2 auto’s every 30 seconds getting mitigated for around 2k. Over the course of a 10 min fight that’s 40k extra damage mitigated. That’s practically a TBN and a half going to waste because DRK can’t use it where the others can.

Auto attacks doing 10k? Ah, so we are talking about dungeons and casual content. In that case, why are we min/maxing as to what tank to bring?

[Nedkel]

TBN is perfectly fine and doesnt need any changes, and it should not be seperated from MP.

DRK doesnt need to be noob friendly job.