Issue with TBN

[snipski]

DRK and Paladin are just the best tanks right now their utllity is so damn strong, if anything TBN needs a nerf 15 sec CD is just insane.

[Absimiliard]

DRK and Paladin are just the best tanks right now their utllity is so damn strong, if anything TBN needs a nerf 15 sec CD is just insane.

Keep in mind that DRK is effectively short a defensive cooldown to compensate for TBN being as strong as it is. That, and Dark Mind is basically useless at least 75% of the time. TBN does not need a rework.

[Izsha]

Keep in mind that DRK is effectively short a defensive cooldown to compensate for TBN being as strong as it is. That, and Dark Mind is basically useless at least 75% of the time. TBN does not need a rework.

Drk has the same number of CDs as War and Gun and shorter CDs on 2 of them than their equivalents on war and gun. Pld is the one with 1 less CD, but it has a passive shield and a second party mit. Drk is not short.

[Absimiliard]

Drk has the same number of CDs as War and Gun and shorter CDs on 2 of them than their equivalents on war and gun. Pld is the one with 1 less CD, but it has a passive shield and a second party mit. Drk is not short.

Do you see the word /effectively/ in there? Effectively is rather important. No one has said DRK is /actually/ short one. But just to entertain, consider the following:

Heart of Stone = TBN (Granted, TBN is much, much stronger than Heart of Stone most of the time)
Camouflage = ????
Rampart = Rampart
Nebula = Shadow Wall
Heart of Light = Dark Missionary
Arm's Length = Arm's Length

People often greatly underestimate the raw value of Camouflage and its counterpart in Warrior's kit. As for DRK, it gets Dark Mind. Dark Mind is useless a large amount of the time, and it's honestly still not even that good when circumstances do permit its use. The state Dark Mind is currently in means that DRK is indeed effectively short one defensive CD most of the time. They could at least give it a small percentage based damage reduction like what's on Camouflage or something. Oh, and Living Dead is a suicide button.

[Izsha]

Do you see the word /effectively/ in there? Effectively is rather important. No one has said DRK is /actually/ short one. But just to entertain, consider the following:

Heart of Stone = TBN (Granted, TBN is much, much stronger than Heart of Stone most of the time)
Camouflage = ????
Rampart = Rampart
Nebula = Shadow Wall
Heart of Light = Dark Missionary
Arm's Length = Arm's Length

People often greatly underestimate the raw value of Camouflage and its counterpart in Warrior's kit. As for DRK, it gets Dark Mind. Dark Mind is useless a large amount of the time, and it's honestly still not even that good when circumstances do permit its use. The state Dark Mind is currently in means that DRK is indeed effectively short one defensive CD most of the time. They could at least give it a small percentage based damage reduction like what's on Camouflage or something. Oh, and Living Dead is a suicide button.

Youre 1st statement is still completely wrong. Drk is not 'effectively' short anything. Dark mind exists. Dark is not"effectively short a defensive coooldown to compensate for TBN being as strong as it is". You cant just pretend the shortest cooldown cooldown in its class 'effectively' doesnt exist. It does, and its very powerful.

Your 2nd statement I didnt comment on because its not wrong as you were referencing the lack of physical mitigation and "75% fo the time" being dungeons, trash, autos, etc.

[Absimiliard]

Youre 1st statement is still completely wrong. Drk is not 'effectively' short anything. Dark mind exists. Dark is not"effectively short a defensive coooldown to compensate for TBN being as strong as it is". You cant just pretend the shortest cooldown cooldown in its class 'effectively' doesnt exist. It does, and its very powerful.

Your 2nd statement I didnt comment on because its not wrong as you were referencing the lack of physical mitigation and "75% fo the time" being dungeons, trash, autos, etc.

You appear to be misunderstanding the word effectively. Once again, saying X is effectively Y is not saying IS Y, it's saying X may as well be Y. Dark Mind is so bad most of the time that it doesn't even get used, whereas the other tanks (with the exception of paladin) do have an extra button they can press during pulls that will provide additional mitigation. Therefore, because DRK can't use Dark Mind under most circumstances, it is effectively short a cooldown a lot of the time. I am not in any shape, way, or form implying that TBN doesn't exist or is weak. Where did you even get that? That being said, its short cooldown is more than made up for by its MP cost. The ability is not imbalanced at all.

[Izsha]

You appear to be misunderstanding the word effectively. Once again, saying X is effectively Y is not saying IS Y, it's saying X may as well be Y. Dark Mind is so bad most of the time that it doesn't even get used, whereas the other tanks (with the exception of paladin) do have an extra button they can press during pulls that will provide additional mitigation. Therefore, because DRK can't use Dark Mind under most circumstances, it is effectively short a cooldown a lot of the time. I am not in any shape, way, or form implying that TBN doesn't exist or is weak. Where did you even get that? That being said, its short cooldown is more than made up for by its MP cost. The ability is not imbalanced at all.

I was talking about dark mind. It is (also) the shortest cooldown in its class and has functions in everything except trash pulls. Which is, again, why i didnt dispute your dungeon trash pull '75% of the time' comment. Dark mind is utterly amazing in everything that isnt million mob trash pull. Downplaying it as 'effectively not existing' is completely disingenous for one of the strongest mitigation skills in the game.