Issue with TBN

[InfiniDragon]

Yeah no, don't touch TBN except to make it 10 seconds if SE wants it to break more often on trash. That move is fantastic in 5.0.

Keep those cursed words "longer cd" the hell away from my shield thanks.

[ArianeEwah]

Y'all are missing the point. TBN does not give you a reward. On the contrary, it comes with high costs! It is not free, far away from it.

You want to see a free ability? Go to GNB and use Heart of Stone, go to WAR and use Raw Intuition. There, free mitigation!

Everytime you use TBN you pray that the shield will pop. And don't get me wrong, the shield is strong, it is great. A cooldown giving a strong shield is a unique and good design to a tank. The problem lies in DRK toolkit that makes the design bad as a whole. It's costs being tied to your damage!
It shouldn't cost damage, because you'll refrain from using it. And right now it's not used for fluff mitigation, or you rely on rng that the shield gets registered right before the next AA, and you get hit hard enough to break it. As for the other tanks you can, will and should use Sheltron/HoS/RawI for fluff damage, overwise it's wasted mitigation.
On the other hand you can't make it give you additional damage, or it would break the job. The skill ceiling would be too high.
If DRK had any other ability in its toolkit for fluff damage, using TBN for tank busters only wouldn't be such an issue.

In certain fights it would remain as a niche ability. e.g. most recent duty E3 Leviathan: this boss mainly uses AA and mediocre raid-wide damage mechanics with just 2-3 high damage tank mechanics throught the fight. (Actually found a log where a DRK uses TBN only 4 times in 10 min!)

For all those who claim that DRK does mitigate tank busters better than any other tank CDs: That doesn't matter. The amount of times where TBN will save you over HoS or Sheltron will be so minuscule, almost non-existent, probably near <1%. The amount of HP you save with TBN over the other tanks' CDs is not relevant! It will not save a heal, neither will it increase the healers DPS for the cost of yours'!

TBN staying an ability with high risk, no reward is bad, and should be changed.

[Crater]

If you don't think that TBN has an appropriate reward for the risk you take in using it, you really just haven't grasped just how much more defensively Powerful it is than any other tank's comparable skills.

Tankbusters are pretty much the least advantageous thing to use TBN on - and it still tends to significantly outperform the others on tankbusters.

There are significant stretches in Titan this tier where TBN alone is very nearly functionally equivalent to having a permanent Sentinel running against Titan's auto-attacks, for essentially no cost.

[TheRealQuah]

Incorrect. The meta has called for as much DPS as possible for the longest time. The best mitigation is killing the boss faster.

Hahaha. Brilliant. The meta is for speed running, and bad players that use it as an excuse as to why they can't clear.

[ReiMakoto]

Y'all are missing the point. TBN does not give you a reward. On the contrary, it comes with high costs! It is not free, far away from it.

You want to see a free ability? Go to GNB and use Heart of Stone, go to WAR and use Raw Intuition. There, free mitigation!

Everytime you use TBN you pray that the shield will pop. And don't get me wrong, the shield is strong, it is great. A cooldown giving a strong shield is a unique and good design to a tank. The problem lies in DRK toolkit that makes the design bad as a whole. It's costs being tied to your damage!
It shouldn't cost damage, because you'll refrain from using it. And right now it's not used for fluff mitigation, or you rely on rng that the shield gets registered right before the next AA, and you get hit hard enough to break it. As for the other tanks you can, will and should use Sheltron/HoS/RawI for fluff damage, overwise it's wasted mitigation.
On the other hand you can't make it give you additional damage, or it would break the job. The skill ceiling would be too high.
If DRK had any other ability in its toolkit for fluff damage, using TBN for tank busters only wouldn't be such an issue.

In certain fights it would remain as a niche ability. e.g. most recent duty E3 Leviathan: this boss mainly uses AA and mediocre raid-wide damage mechanics with just 2-3 high damage tank mechanics throught the fight. (Actually found a log where a DRK uses TBN only 4 times in 10 min!)

For all those who claim that DRK does mitigate tank busters better than any other tank CDs: That doesn't matter. The amount of times where TBN will save you over HoS or Sheltron will be so minuscule, almost non-existent, probably near <1%. The amount of HP you save with TBN over the other tanks' CDs is not relevant! It will not save a heal, neither will it increase the healers DPS for the cost of yours'!

TBN staying an ability with high risk, no reward is bad, and should be changed.

I'll repeat it one more time, the reward is being better mitigation than the comparible skills, its better than heart of stone, raw intuition, and shelltron for sheer amount mitigated, and better than heart of stone, nascent flash and intervention on a party member, and also stacks better with these skills when given from a party member. The simple fact remains if you're trying to use tbn and its not breaking, its not a significant enough amount of damage to be worth mitigating with other skills anyway.

The Reward is high mitigation thats dps neutral, the risk is non existent if youre using it right.

[Seraphor]

If you are using TBN just to break it, you lose mitigation. A tank not using mitigation just to keep up damage is bad design, and should not happen.

But if the damage isn't enough to break TBN in the first place, then using TBN would be OVERmitigating.
WHM can spam Cure 2 on you if they want to but then that's OVERhealing.


TBN is a brilliant skill just the way it is, the only change I'd want made to it would be extending it's duration slightly, to make it more likely to pop in dungeon pulls.

[Kathyz]

Ideas how to fix this issue:

• Give TBN the 4.2 Excogitation treatment: Grant us the "Dark Arts" effect "upon effect duration expiration". In other words, either the shield breaks early and grants DA, or it expires and grants DA.

Are we going to ignore this?, the easier solution of them all?

[Izsha]

If you cant make tbn break then the damage is inconsequential and covered by regens and the other tabks mitigation tools are equally underwhelming.

Lets say you have 100k hp. Tbn blocks 25k in 7seconds. If you cant break it that means you took LESS than 25k in 7 seconds. You know how much raw intuition would mitigate in that situation if damage is that low? 24k (less than 25) *0.2 is......4.8k over 7 seconds. Also note that the other skills only last 6 seconds so if damage isnt breaking tbn in 7 seconds, other tanks are only mitigating 6 seconds of this tickle damage. You want to give up some of the best mitigation so that when you are being tickled by minsters you can negate less than 5k damage over 6 (not 7) seconds when you have 100k+ hp?

This is what over mitigating looks like. Regen will literally keep up with damage that cant break tbn and the other tanks alternative is mitigating such miniscule damage in a situation that cant pop tbn that its inconsequential.

If monster damage is so low tbn wont pop then nitigating 20% of that same low damage is going to be utterly meaningless levels of mitigation. Welcome to the reality that all tank mitigation sucks if monster output is to low. Thays the point. Monster output is to low for mitigation to matter. Tbn works fine where it DOES matter as do the other tank options.

[DJMau]

Y'all are missing the point. TBN does not give you a reward. On the contrary, it comes with high costs! It is not free, far away from it.

You want to see a free ability? Go to GNB and use Heart of Stone, go to WAR and use Raw Intuition. There, free mitigation!

Everytime you use TBN you pray that the shield will pop. And don't get me wrong, the shield is strong, it is great. A cooldown giving a strong shield is a unique and good design to a tank. The problem lies in DRK toolkit that makes the design bad as a whole. It's costs being tied to your damage!
It shouldn't cost damage, because you'll refrain from using it. And right now it's not used for fluff mitigation, or you rely on rng that the shield gets registered right before the next AA, and you get hit hard enough to break it. As for the other tanks you can, will and should use Sheltron/HoS/RawI for fluff damage, overwise it's wasted mitigation.
On the other hand you can't make it give you additional damage, or it would break the job. The skill ceiling would be too high.
If DRK had any other ability in its toolkit for fluff damage, using TBN for tank busters only wouldn't be such an issue.

In certain fights it would remain as a niche ability. e.g. most recent duty E3 Leviathan: this boss mainly uses AA and mediocre raid-wide damage mechanics with just 2-3 high damage tank mechanics throught the fight. (Actually found a log where a DRK uses TBN only 4 times in 10 min!)

For all those who claim that DRK does mitigate tank busters better than any other tank CDs: That doesn't matter. The amount of times where TBN will save you over HoS or Sheltron will be so minuscule, almost non-existent, probably near <1%. The amount of HP you save with TBN over the other tanks' CDs is not relevant! It will not save a heal, neither will it increase the healers DPS for the cost of yours'!

TBN staying an ability with high risk, no reward is bad, and should be changed.

I've seen this line of argument before...oh yeah. Xeno's exact argument against TBN.

[Hierro]

The Reward is high mitigation thats dps neutral, the risk is non existent if youre using it right.

B-b-b-but I don't want to activate my two brain cells to use it during a tank buster or AoE+ auto attack follow ups. that's too hard I just want to press the button without thinking!