Issue with TBN

[Reynhart]

Whatever we thought about every job and every skill, there's still a concept that risk should be tied to a reward.
TBN always come with a risk, but it offers absolutely no reward. So, give it a reward by making Dark Arts crit your next Edge/Flood on top or replacing the mana cost.

[Nedkel]

Whatever we thought about every job and every skill, there's still a concept that risk should be tied to a reward.
TBN always come with a risk, but it offers absolutely no reward. So, give it a reward by making Dark Arts crit your next Edge/Flood on top or replacing the mana cost.

Wat.
You get a shield and you get a chance to use the damage move.
Its twice as efficient than normally using MP for damage abilities.

You risk for a reward straight forward.

[Reynhart]

You get a shield

Something that other tanks have without any risk at all, and completely free.

and you get a chance to use the damage move.

A move that you could have used instead of TBN.

DPS wise, TBN is at best neutral. There is no "reward" at all.

However, if we want something less straightforward than a Crit buff, we could have Dark Arts only last for a set duration (Like 10s) and, while Dark Arts is active, you gain a slight speed buff. Of course, Dark Arts will wear off if you use Edge/Flood so you'd have to make sure you don't need to refresh Darkside during the duration of Dark Arts.

[TheRealQuah]

Something that other tanks have without any risk at all, and completely free.

A move that you could have used instead of TBN.

DPS wise, TBN is at best neutral. There is no "reward" at all.

However, if we want something less straightforward than a Crit buff, we could have Dark Arts only last for a set duration (Like 10s) and, while Dark Arts is active, you gain a slight speed buff. Of course, Dark Arts will wear off if you use Edge/Flood so you'd have to make sure you don't need to refresh Darkside during the duration of Dark Arts.

Which other tanks have a 25% shield on a 15s cooldown exactly?

[Reynhart]

Which other tanks have a 25% shield on a 15s cooldown exactly?

The difference between having +25% HP and reducing damage by 20% is minimal, and let's not talk about how much WAR can heal himself and a party member during Nascent Flash.
And the 15s CD is irrelevant when it comes to planning TBN to make sure it breaks every time.

You give your healer a chance to dish out 1 or two DPS moves during TBN, IT IS A DPS GAIN but its not your personal dps, but a team dps.

If TBN actually gives your healer any room to spare 1 or 2 GCD dpsing instead of healing, then other mitigation tools from tank do the same, but they don't risk losing their personal DPS.

[Nedkel]

The difference between having +25% HP and reducing damage by 20% is minimal, and let's not talk about how much WAR can heal himself and a party member during Nascent Flash.
And the 15s CD is irrelevant when it comes to planning TBN to make sure it breaks every time.

Its giant.

With 20% hp you have to take damage equivalent of 150/187.5% of your health in order to make the effective health TBN gives upfront.

[Danelo]

Which other tanks have defensive abilities that cost a DPS resource?

[waterboytkd]

Whatever we thought about every job and every skill, there's still a concept that risk should be tied to a reward.
TBN always come with a risk, but it offers absolutely no reward. So, give it a reward by making Dark Arts crit your next Edge/Flood on top or replacing the mana cost.

I think this is the important point. The MP cost means you're giving up an Edge/Flood for TBN. No other tank is giving up its offense just to be able to use its defense*. If you use it correctly, it breaks even. Risk for no reward.

Considering DRK is also bringing up the rear in the dps department, I think this is a fine suggestion. Another would be you get two stacks of Dark Arts, not one. The idea being: MP you could otherwise spend on offense gets spent of defense, but if you spend it wisely/best, you will actually get a boost to your offense (an autocrit Edge/Flood, or 2 Edge/Floods).

*The only exception is Paladin's Clemency, but that's not a "normal" part of their defensive kit. It's more of a panic button. If things are going south, Paladin can give up some damage (a significant amount, tbh) to bring some strong healing to the team. But if everything goes according to plan, a Paladin never casts Clemency.

[TheRealQuah]

I think this is the important point. The MP cost means you're giving up an Edge/Flood for TBN. No other tank is giving up its offense just to be able to use its defense*. If you use it correctly, it breaks even. Risk for no reward.

Considering DRK is also bringing up the rear in the dps department, I think this is a fine suggestion. Another would be you get two stacks of Dark Arts, not one. The idea being: MP you could otherwise spend on offense gets spent of defense, but if you spend it wisely/best, you will actually get a boost to your offense (an autocrit Edge/Flood, or 2 Edge/Floods).

If you use it correctly, you drastically reduce the damage that you take. So you need less healing. So healers can an extra couple of GCD's on DPS.
Though I do kinda agree that Dark Arts should also guarantee a Crit Direct hit.