Issue with TBN

[Danelo]

I might have missed it but I haven’t seen anyone who is comparing TBN’s risk reward to EoS. Comparing TBN to other tank kits is what matters so I’ll be focusing on that.

I think everyone already knows what I mean when I say comparable tank cds but in case you don’t: raw/nascent, Shelton, HoS, TBN.

As far as other comparable tank cds: All offer mitigation (and, except for TBN which only works till the shield is exhausted, continue to offer it for their durations).

All are free (free meaning not tied to a damage resource- this only applies to Shelton, which has a cost but is not tied to damage resource. The rest are truly free) except for TBN.

There is no detriment to use all of the other comparable tank cds except for TBN, hence the high risk.

So, free mitigation is the name of the game. Every tank has that with the comparable cd except for DRK.

When you look at TBN by comparison to other tanks, it’s a high risk, neutral reward. Considering it’s pretty much the core mechanic of DRK, it’s disappointing to say the least.

I’ve seen quite a few post saying that if you don’t like it then you don’t know how to use it but that’s not my case - I simply disagree with you.

If you choose to say the cd timer, which doesn’t really factor in to its usage when you can’t spam it infinitely due to cost, or the size of the shield, which in most cases is nominal considering healers are going to use the same ogcd to heal you up and the difference between comparable tank cds will almost NEVER mean the difference between life and death, is worth the disadvantage that’s up to you. But TBN compared to the others is at a disadvantage.

I don’t see the harm in giving a reward to the ability while keeping the risk considering DRK is at the bottom of DPS right now. After all we wield a two-handed Greatsword that is VERY slow.

[Danelo]

Which other tanks have a defensive ability that can potentially offer 80-100% mitigation on a 15 second cooldown?

...At a cost. And the answer is no one else suffers that. Answering a question with a question is just deflection btw.

And if you are getting 100% of damage mitigation you shouldn’t have used it and just lost 500 potency.

[Crater]

...At a cost. And the answer is no one else suffers that. Answering a question with a question is just deflection btw.

And if you are getting 100% of damage mitigation you shouldn’t have used it and just lost 500 potency.

You're being dishonest by calling it a cost. It's a risk. If you use it correctly, TBN is every bit as 'free' a mitigation source as Sheltron, Heart of Stone, or Raw Intuition.

The reward for taking on that risk is that TBN is immensely more powerful as a defensive tool than any of the other tanks' equivalents. It only hurts you to minimize and handwave away those arguments, or to - for instance - pretend that when I said "[TBN] can potentially offer 80-100% mitigation on a 15 second cooldown", what I actually meant was "If you use it against damage that can't break the shield, it's 100% mitigation, and let's all agree not to talk about the drastic difference in cooldown time."

[kazzel120]

Which other tanks have defensive abilities that cost a DPS resource?

When used correctly TBN costs you nothing because not only did you get the 30k+ hp shield you also got an EoS or FoS after the other tanks mitigation skills are pathetic compared to how much TBN can negate.

Only people i see who complain about TBN being a bad skill are people who only look at it costing 3000 mp and blow it every time its up because omg those auto attacks lol.

Use it right and TBN is a huge reward not a risk.

[Lyth]

TBN adds a fair amount of fight-specific depth to DRK. On the most basic level, you can reserve 3000 MP for every tankbuster, but you're missing out on the nuance if you do that.

There are times under raid buffs where you want to try and get out as many edges as possible.

The interesting thing about TBN is that it temporarily increases your 'Edge' carrying capacity. You don't have to use your Dark Arts proc immediately. You can sit on it, as long as you're not in a rush to put out another TBN immediately after. So when you enter a raid burst window with Dark Arts up, you bring along an extra use of Edge. This, in conjunction with the fact that you have three different personal 'buffs' that have different interactions with your resource levels, is what makes DRK very fun to figure out and play.

[DemonicNeko]

You're being dishonest by calling it a cost. It's a risk. If you use it correctly, TBN is every bit as 'free' a mitigation source as Sheltron, Heart of Stone, or Raw Intuition.

The reward for taking on that risk is that TBN is immensely more powerful as a defensive tool than any of the other tanks' equivalents. It only hurts you to minimize and handwave away those arguments, or to - for instance - pretend that when I said "[TBN] can potentially offer 80-100% mitigation on a 15 second cooldown", what I actually meant was "If you use it against damage that can't break the shield, it's 100% mitigation, and let's all agree not to talk about the drastic difference in cooldown time."

When used correctly TBN costs you nothing because not only did you get the 30k+ hp shield you also got an EoS or FoS after the other tanks mitigation skills are pathetic compared to how much TBN can negate.

Only people i see who complain about TBN being a bad skill are people who only look at it costing 3000 mp and blow it every time its up because omg those auto attacks lol.

Use it right and TBN is a huge reward not a risk.

I am in full agreement with both of you. Part of being a tank is learning the boss mechanics. Yes I am not perfect and I have popped it for the wrong boss mechanics. I did not sit there and complain about the ability. I simple said. "Dang it. I messed up." Then moved on with the fight. I knew that the wasted 3000 mp was on my bad not the games bad. I love TBN because right now. Tanking is very brain dead. We have a stupid simple rotation Pop cool downs for extra survivability or dps. It not like we have to really manage any resources in boss fights. If your going oom as a tank. Then your playing the class wrong.

Heck we are not even managing activations buffs on gear like you have to do on many other mmo. Honestly tanking has gotten so brain dead easy. At this rate we might be looking at a single button press and let a script do all the tanking for us next expansion.
Sad part is. I know people will still complain about how that system would be to hard and punishing.

[Shurrikhan]

I might have missed it but I haven’t seen anyone who is comparing TBN’s risk reward to EoS. Comparing TBN to other tank kits is what matters so I’ll be focusing on that.

Frankly, any X "type of mitigation" that can be reduced purely to just that is generally a failure of job design. I like all that TBN can do. It even synergizes with our flexibility by making it even more absurdly flexible through a banked EoS. I realize that particular synergetic "reward" is awfully situational, and even composition-dependent, but, there are two other, more obvious ones. If there's a frequent enough pseudo-tankbuster that you can pop it, you can use your "on-demand" up to twice as often as other tanks. Moreover, it's absurdly powerful per use. The most a HoS or Shelltron can absorb is less than 18% of the tank's HP, assuming the tank was topped off and survives with 1 HP. A TBN absorbs 25%. True, a GNB's heal+shield is stronger passive self-sustain than Souleater and PLD has block, but DRK "on-demand" mitigation is stupidly strong.

[TheRealQuah]

Which out of Raw Intuition, Nascent Flash, Shelltron, Heart of Stone, and TBN is the best skill if you're about to take a 50k on 30k health?

It's the only skill outside of invulns that can actually save your life in a bad situation.

[kazzel120]

Which out of Raw Intuition, Nascent Flash, Shelltron, Heart of Stone, and TBN is the best skill if you're about to take a 50k on 30k health?

It's the only skill outside of invulns that can actually save your life in a bad situation.

Hell.even in Titania ex with a schs aldo on top or TBN for Divination Rune it does paltry damage and gives your healers more time to pew pew. Saying its a dps lose like so many claim is the dumbest crap ever.

I've even been told by healers how easy it is to heal me because well TBN is just that great when uses correctly.

When i do expert contend or any content on my gnb i notice i take a lot more damage then on my drk and i have to use more cd's then just 2 tbns and 1 normal.cd for wall to wall pulls. If you are having to blow more cd's then that then your aoe dps is sad.

Gnb has godly tank dps but it takes way more damage then a drk does when both are played equally well.

[VenKitsune]

The new Dark arts mechanic is there to reward good usage of TBN. In savage and extreme content, where matters of balance actually matter, its actually fairly easy to have your TBN break from AUTO ATTACKS. Even E1S for example, the entry raid fight for this expansion, does 24k auto attacks, so only two attacks breaks it.

Let me say it again, Dark Arts REWARDS GOOD USAGE OF TBN. If your TBN didn't break, then you goofed up. Simple as that.

This isnt a matter of balance, just a matter of your lack of understanding on when to use the only skill that makes us still relevant, and one i assume you propose to be nerfed just because its a "dps loss"? you serious?

You're a tank - your first duty is to stay alive, and if a mechanic rewards you by basically refunding what you spend on a cooldown for free damage then its a good thing, not something to complain about.
This isnt even mentioning the mitigation it affords you or your co-tank, allowing your healers to squeeze in more damage.

Let me give you an example of how TBN in its current state is great, and by extension the current dark arts effect. In E2S, as MT i use TBN on our PLD and she uses a buffed intervention on me, we both gain a 20/25% increase to EHP, PLUS whatever else we used, Rampart/Sentinel/Shadow wall PLUS Adlo. This is amazing mitigation, and even with Sentinel and a crit adlo up on her the TBN i put on her still breaks to the E2S tank buster, all the while mitigating so much out HP bars barely move, and so our healers can continue to dps - Not to mention through all that the TBN did actually break, every time, and so i get a free edge of darkness even when our HP bars barely move.