How I would want SMN to work.

[Burningskull]

Remove Pets.
Remove Ruin Bio and Miasma.
Remove Trances.
Remove Atherflow or Rework it.
Seperate Summoner and Scholar. With the way advanced jobs work there is no reason Scholar needs to be tied to Summoner anymore.

Have actual spells that summon atherial versions of primals that appear for a few seconds to do their attacks and then leave. This way from lvl 50-60 you could have spells from Ramuh, Shiva, and Leviathan. A spell from Bahamut at 60. Then 60-70 you could have spells from Ravana and Bismark. A spell from Alexander at 70. So on and so on. Have some gimmick where one primal will empower another primal so you have a reason to cast all your spells. Maybe have the Bahamut and Alexander spells combo some how since they are the level capped spells. Or have combos of primal spells build Atherflow to summon Bahamut or Alexander to do their big attacks. This way your summons are your spells and not just mobile DoTs as people call them.

[DJMau]

So basically a Black Mage with more particle effects. Though to be fair th the that's what they've been since their inception.

[Siete]

Can pretty much agree Tbh.
It could make a considerable difference from BLM if it was made of instant casts and more of a combo class like Melee DPS but using different primal abilities.
Although right now SMN is the same as BLM but badly done.
When I picked this class I expected SUMMONING and dealing damage through it, alas my Ruin hits for 3600s right now while Ifrit-Egi hits for 300.
It takes 12 attacks from Ifrit-Egi to match a 2.5 ruin cast.
And the DoTs? Pretty much the same as Ifrit-Egi.
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/RFmv7...-done&source=6
Even on almost perfect parses, Bio+Miasma+Egi damage doesn't even reach Ruin's damage.
This is bad bad.

[Sequora]

I really like the trances and the Demi summons. This sounds too much like a BLM with a different effect. I wouldn’t mind them changing our spells to be more based off primals. Primal based DOTs. A filler spell based off primals

[Siete]

I really like the trances and the Demi summons. This sounds too much like a BLM with a different effect. I wouldn’t mind them changing our spells to be more based off primals. Primal based DOTs. A filler spell based off primals

Demi-summons and trances are to stay imo.
Just make filler spell be dependant on the last egi skill used or something and combining different egis fill some sort of gauge to trance and trance to summon demi just like it works now.

[Taranok]

Can pretty much agree Tbh.
It could make a considerable difference from BLM if it was made of instant casts and more of a combo class like Melee DPS but using different primal abilities.
Although right now SMN is the same as BLM but badly done.
When I picked this class I expected SUMMONING and dealing damage through it, alas my Ruin hits for 3600s right now while Ifrit-Egi hits for 300.
It takes 12 attacks from Ifrit-Egi to match a 2.5 ruin cast.
And the DoTs? Pretty much the same as Ifrit-Egi.
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/RFmv7...-done&source=6
Even on almost perfect parses, Bio+Miasma+Egi damage doesn't even reach Ruin's damage.
This is bad bad.

Ifrit-egi should match Ruin 3's damage in 5 attacks. Ifrit comes in swinging for 40 effective potency, and ruin 3 is only 200 potency.

I really like the trances and the Demi summons. This sounds too much like a BLM with a different effect. I wouldn’t mind them changing our spells to be more based off primals. Primal based DOTs. A filler spell based off primals

I agree. The trance system accomplishes 2 specific things. One, it fits in the lore of FFXIV (kind of, mostly because the lore is written to justify gameplay, not the other way around), and two, trances can serve to justify altering SMN's rotation like how DB and DP are currently doing. The Trance should definitely be how you summon the primals, but it should also summon the primals, and each primal should be a simple, but unique rotation separate from the other trance phases.

And that would be something more closely approximating Summoner than what we have. That said, please no on DoTs as filler. Unless the primal itself throws it up as part of its unique rotation, DoTs as ffiller is one of the most boring of rotations you can have as a filler rotation. I'd seriously rather spam ruin 3 for a full minute than watch DoT timers in a fully complete rotation as filler.

Since everyone seems to like Trances I did have an idea where you have a trance for everything from Carbuncle to Bahamut. I do like the idea of combining Bahamut with Dreadwyrm trance cause the fact that Pheonix Trance doesn't give Aether for a Bahamut summon after words means you spend however long till your next Dreadwyrm trance just spamming Ruin and DoTs. Throw in som oGCD primal abilities to throw in between your trance abilities and it wouldn't be that bad just going through trances.

Funnily enough, this was my idea for how to get rid of egis but keep the carbuncles. And I further went and made it so Enkindle would summon any summon that you used to trance into as a random summon. That is to say, in a hypothetical 2-summon system where you get Emerald, Topaz, Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda, at level 50, Enkindle would randomly summon Emerald, Topaz, or Ifrit whereas the trances would summon Titan and Garuda. Just, you know, proper demi-summons for Ifrit/Titan/Garuda, just Phoenix-sized not Bahamut-sized.

[TankHunter678]

Ifrit-egi should match Ruin 3's damage in 5 attacks. Ifrit comes in swinging for 40 effective potency, and ruin 3 is only 200 potency.

Pet tooltips say how much potency it would be for the player, but the pets themselves actually suffer a potency nerf. This is noticable when you actually run the math and look at the damage numbers that pop up on level appropriate targets and SCH's fairy healing.


Now as for Summoner, if you stick with Trances then treat the egi's as kinda the starter we get that upgrades into demi-primals. To help showcase the growth in power in the player that allows them to draw upon stronger forms as they become more capable.

I personally still want there to be dots, it helps separate from the other caster classes and I am a fan of quoting those toxin troopers from the red alert series "Spread the DOOM" every time I hit bane. Not to mention, every Summoner in FF history has been more then just summons but also another caster type. No reason to make our Summoner basically a BLM clone with Summons, that has already been done before in FF.

[Taranok]

Pet tooltips say how much potency it would be for the player, but the pets themselves actually suffer a potency nerf. This is noticable when you actually run the math and look at the damage numbers that pop up on level appropriate targets and SCH's fairy healing.

Yes, it's an 80 potency attack at 50% strength, so it hits for 40 potency. I actually tested this myself not too long ago.

[Brightshadow]

I want trances and demi summons merged together. And egis skills as our main rotation when not in a trance.

Example: similar to how Phoenix works at 80.

1st rotation: egi do egi assaults 1-4?

Build demi summons gauge

2nd rotation: summon demi bahamut and use dreadwyrm trance while he's out.

3rd rotation: summon demi Phoenix use her trance rotation.

4rd rotation: summon demi Alexander use his trance rotation.

Restart.

Future Demi's would increase rotation time but wouldn't introduce button bloat since everything should work change based on egi assaults 1-4 / enkindle

[Aomine1992]

The dots and egis really need to go and delete ruin please lol but I do rather like the trances and Demi summons but combine DWT and Bahamut like FBT and honestly make other trances like FBT like SE did that one right but missed everything else lol