Proposed Samurai Adjustments/Fixes

[xxvaynxx]

As Sam player, i enjoyed the Shinten cycle bewteen gcd.
As Drk player, i enjoyed the dark arts cycle between gcd.

my personal opinion (it dont matter if it triggers people saying this) if pressing 1 button between gcd is too much to handle, it's no wonder why shb jobs are super dumb to play with no flex or flow and doesn't reward player skill (looking at Ninjas).
the "dark arts" (alltho nothing compared to the Shinten we were talking about) has 1 thing in common with Shinten, and that is, if your not paying attention and over spent, you f'ed yourself over. take it like a champ and learn from it.

It's understandable that some people prefer NOT spaming shinten due to latency, cronic tunnle vision, amnesia - forgeting when to stop spending kenki for that kaiten that allways seams to come 3 gcd's too early..am i right? i know every sam had accidentally overspent kenki once or twice? dont even deny...

The point problem with Sam at its core right now, is
1) the lvl 80 skill being a joke. buffing their potency on the first 4 ticks like any sam is going to be "hold on i'll go meditate for 45 seconds, but when im back..your gonna feel the wrath of this midare shoha combo"
2) the 55 seconds meikyo vs the 60 second kaeshi
3) the obvious dps compared to drg/mnks with raid utility and it's magical counterpart, the blm
4) the clunky rotation that forces you to either a) over use a yukikaze b) become a dragoon litterally c) loose 400 potency with the new "Hagakure"
5) Why did they even fix what wasn't broke with Hagakure? (half the sam that had the tunnle vision and amnesia issues will argue no.5 but it's their opinion)

My only question to the Dev team is, do they even PLAY the job?

At it's core, samurai was very simple but for sheer fact samurai is very appealing to lots of players which means lots of bad players play samurai and lots of them hated hagakura and outright not used it making samurai a meme for only pulling 4k . SE took it away and gave us the brain dead Ikki to help the bad samurai.
Which... Didn't actually because now samurai works on a 60 burst window making the rotation strict. So they actually made samurai harder because you could have meikyo ready but tsubame still on 20secs because you messed up.

[Lersayil]

And the part about samurai not being high apm, that just tells me you either never played samurai seriously or just occasionally played it.
Back in sigma samurai was very much a high apm job. Because bis was sks but you know the beauty of samurai thanks to hagakura? Samurai could flex from being a ultra fast job to a bursty slow crt samurai.

Trying to find hard data on this, but I don't recall SAM being particularly high APM compared to a NIN or BRD (MNK?). And yes, I was running SkS melds almost the whole of SB. And its most definitely not higher APM than a SMN or NIN current expansion.

EDIT: looking at the Omega clears on 90+ percentiles SAM avaraged around 40 CPM, BRD 46 CPM, NIN 45 CPM, MNK 44 CPM.

my personal opinion (it dont matter if it triggers people saying this) if pressing 1 button between gcd is too much to handle, it's no wonder why shb jobs are super dumb to play with no flex or flow and doesn't reward player skill (looking at Ninjas).
the "dark arts" (alltho nothing compared to the Shinten we were talking about) has 1 thing in common with Shinten, and that is, if your not paying attention and over spent, you f'ed yourself over. take it like a champ and learn from it.

It's understandable that some people prefer NOT spaming shinten due to latency, cronic tunnle vision, amnesia - forgeting when to stop spending kenki for that kaiten that allways seams to come 3 gcd's too early..am i right? i know every sam had accidentally overspent kenki once or twice? dont even deny...

It also has another thing in common: its a one button resource dump, between GCDs, giving you a flat potency bonus.

And the reason I don't like it is not due to the "effort" it requires. Its a kenki dump. Pressing one button over and over and over again with minimal thought put into it is just plain old boring to me (hence the comparison to DRK).

Currently I have no issue with the amount of Shintens. Sure, if you save up a few for a burst phase its slightly tedious, but not unbearable. I just don't want more of it. Surely they can come up with more imaginative mechanics for the class than "press Shinten moAr".

[xxvaynxx]

Trying to find hard data on this, but I don't recall SAM being particularly high APM compared to a NIN or BRD (MNK?). And yes, I was running SkS melds almost the whole of SB. And its most definitely not higher APM than a SMN or NIN current expansion.

EDIT: looking at the Omega clears on 90+ percentiles SAM avaraged around 35 CPM, BRD 46 CPM, NIN 45 CPM, MNK 44 CPM.




It also has another thing in common: its a one button resource dump, between GCDs, giving you a flat potency bonus.

And the reason I don't like it is not due to the "effort" it requires. Its a kenki dump. Pressing one button over and over and over again with minimal thought put into it is just plain old boring to me (hence the comparison to DRK).

Currently I have no issue with the amount of Shintens. Sure, if you save up a few for a burst phase its slightly tedious, but not unbearable. I just don't want more of it. Surely they can come up with more imaginative mechanics for the class than "press Shinten moAr".

Well if you compare to jobs like nin and brd ofc it not going to be THAT high, more so smn. I never SAID samurai was higher than other jobs. I just said it had a high APM. Don't really need to find data to know that.
Though with bard its sorta shifts due to not always getting procs, same with mnk.

You also have to keep in mind in alpha, the bis changed from sks to crt. It was only in sigma where bis was sks, I'm not going to go look through all that to prove a point though to see their cpm.

So you running SkS all through SB is kinda weird and kinda proves my point you wasn't fully invested into samurai if you wasn't following the bis to get the maximum amount of dps you could get.
Like...show me your parses as a samurai. Show me you actually knew how to play the job well.

Because you'll know how important hagakure is in fights and why the current samurai is kinda a pain due to things not lining up and downtime hurting now.

So far you're complaining is you don't want to use shinten more even though you keep saying you don't mind it.

If you don't want to spam shinten, whats your idea how to bring back fluidity to samurai? you gave no idea's other than you don't want to spam shinten which isn't even hard to do.

[Chimiko]

I feel like shinten brings samurai to a decent place tbh. Shinten spam is just what SAM needs tbh. Without shinten our rotation would be extremly boring =s
I'd take more shintens anyday tbh. Its fun using oGCD's between GCD's.

I still don't think SAM needs anything new tbh. The only 2 things they need to change is Meditation and server ticks. Just make it instant. Server ticks needs to go.
The other is potency buffs for our combo's (Yukikaze/jinpu/gekko/Kasha/Shifu) I honestly don't think we need anything else. We just lack damage that's all.

Sure our rotation is a bit stiff without old hagakure but its still not that bad. Everything lines up just fine if you know what your doing.

[Ryaz]

Looks like they're going to redo Shoha's mechanic for 5.1.

Hagakaure was removed because they thought it complicated the rotation too much. I don't think the devs played the same class we do. Hagakaure was key in keeping the rotation smooth no matter what skill speed tier you were at.

Ninja is going to be focused on first for like 5.08, so don't expect any Sam changes for a while.

[xxvaynxx]

Looks like they're going to redo Shoha's mechanic for 5.1.

Hagakaure was removed because they thought it complicated the rotation too much. I don't think the devs played the same class we do. Hagakaure was key in keeping the rotation smooth no matter what skill speed tier you were at.

Ninja is going to be focused on first for like 5.08, so don't expect any Sam changes for a while.

We might not get any action changes but I think we'll get simple potency buffs.

[Tatsemaru]

And the reason I don't like it is not due to the "effort" it requires. Its a kenki dump. Pressing one button over and over and over again with minimal thought put into it is just plain old boring to me (hence the comparison to DRK).

I would still argue that if you play brain-deadly spaming the button, you would over spend your kenki for the kaiten. Thus making it either a) rewarding for those paying attention or b) really dumb cos its the same spaming butt-wait..missed my kaiten.

Then again, people have different views. Menjority sam player prefer the shinten in serious content. Casual sam players are indifferent to the new rotation cos "We gEt To uSe MorE MidArE" ive seen people say..

Bottom line, the old hagakure gave samurai job a flexibility and a flow when playing at casual or serious lvl. If you dislike the old Hagakure, thats utterly and entirely your respected opinion, but you cant deny the current clunky feeling of the job in shb

[Tatsemaru]

At it's core, samurai was very simple but for sheer fact samurai is very appealing to lots of players which means lots of bad players play samurai and lots of them hated hagakura and outright not used it making samurai a meme for only pulling 4k . SE took it away and gave us the brain dead Ikki to help the bad samurai.
Which... Didn't actually because now samurai works on a 60 burst window making the rotation strict. So they actually made samurai harder because you could have meikyo ready but tsubame still on 20secs because you messed up.

Glad we agree ^

[Nier_Drakongod]

I really think the dev team see SAM just a MNK without utilities! Since 4.3 they kept it that way. And from the Q&A they said will slightly increase its dps, I assure it's nothing more than putting SAM on par with MNK.

"Samurai’s burst is designed around benefitting from receiving party buffs from other party members." << another reason why SAM will never be as good as a BLM in parties.

I don't believe they'll give SAM any justice. (I'm already in stage 5, acceptance)

[Eliadil]

"Samurai’s burst is designed around benefitting from receiving party buffs from other party members."

The huge, huge issue with that statement is that it worked perfectly fine in Stormblood because we could adapt to the raid buff window thanks to Hagakure (we could even overwrite two or three sen without them being "wasted" because we received a big amount of kenki for doing so), where now it has become a really, really strict rotation that entirely relies on stats just to line up somewhat nicely (and this doesn't remove how clunky the rotation can feel sometimes, like when having to overwrite a Yukikaze Sen). This imo should be looked at more carefully. I completely agree with their statement, but again the current way the job is designed doesn't really help to achieve the smooth playstyle we had before.