Introduce Hall of the Intermediate

[HyperiusUltima]

I don't know if it's been said before, but with the giant amount of Jump Potion users on the high-rise in Shadowbringers, even with the new raid out now, I think we definitely need some things in place to help the overall experience for players going from Heavensward to Stormblood.

What it should introduce would be something to help the player better understand the game and their class as well as large-scale pulls, which are more apparent in Stormblood than Heavensward, and especially in Shadowbringers.

[Doozer]

While I think it's a good idea to teach people how to do content post-ARR, since some surely need it, I don't think teaching large pulls as the default is a good idea. It's already a pretty unpleasant mindset, I don't need brand new players who used jump potions telling me I'm not tanking fast enough for them.

[Kaethra]

I can do one better:

Make HP of enemies = 0
Don't stand in bad areas.

There's everything you need to know about FFXIV in all its content. Just put those two lines in an email when someone comes back.

Everything else you simply learn while doing. Everything else, the general community has a duty to teach. A duty that you all like to try to get out of with these silly threads. Not going to happen. You're responsible. So buck up, take responsibility and teach the newcomers and the returners. Thats on you all.

Don't pass the buck. Don't be the problem. Be the solution.

[Hawklaser]

Maybe they just need to repurpose the Bardam's Metle Mechanic boss a few times. Once or twice at the start of each expansion. To cover the bulk of mechanics and markers that crop up.

Class play however is a different beast. Not sure how to help drill that into new players that skip ahead without a forced playthrough of job quests via the role play system they have in place.

[Musashidon]

more optional content i can completely ignore and not care about? sure not really my problem anyways.

[pclarkson85]

I think people care a little too much. I cap tomes and eden in a few hours of server reset... all PUGs. And if it takes a little longer because some people dont play as much or aren't as "good" it really doesn't matter. If you're one of those people that "only has a few hours to play and needs to get things done!" grrr.. crowd. grow up and get a static party for your elite ass. Don't expect people to adhere to your standards or way of play. get over yourself

[xbahax92]

I can do one better:

Make HP of enemies = 0
Don't stand in bad areas.

There's everything you need to know about FFXIV in all its content. Just put those two lines in an email when someone comes back.

Everything else you simply learn while doing. Everything else, the general community has a duty to teach. A duty that you all like to try to get out of with these silly threads. Not going to happen. You're responsible. So buck up, take responsibility and teach the newcomers and the returners. Thats on you all.

Don't pass the buck. Don't be the problem. Be the solution.

I would like to quote something that someone told me yesterday.

I was doing 4 man Lyhe Gyhiah (the new treasure map dungeon), 2 DPS (that person being Bard), 1 WHM and 1 Tank. It wasnt my group so I had no say in kicking or keeping the people, but if you join a 4 man treasure map you should at least... know how to play your role, have general understanding of the combat basics and also know your rotation. But anyway. We went in, started doing the first room and ofcourse adds spawned.
I asked that person to help with AOE, so the mobs would die faster. And what did I got told?

"Aoe damage does 50% less damage, you dont have to tell me what to do."

And meanwhile I see the tank dying because of no heals from the Whitemage, which was struggling to keep the tank alive. (She also contributed no DPS during downtimes)

If people have this attitude and are also ignorant on understanding/reading tool tips, then sorry, they wont learn "while doing". And if its the case.. then hell yes I am totally for forcing players into the hall of Intermediate.
And I am aware, I had the choice to leave anytime, but once someone opens a map, you cant just simply leave after. If the rule says "everyone 1 map" what can you do? Quit? Or endure it?
So dont try to tell me "its our holy duty to teach others". Im not here to guide every bad player during my freetime.

[Makeda]

I am starting to think this would be a good idea.

Savage Raiding and extremes here are radically harder than normal mode content and there’s not much out there to help bridge the skill gap except throwing yourself into extreme/savage at the cost of your group mates.

I come from WoW, and I am finding that does not prepare me for savage here. In WoW I was at the level of normal and heroic raids.

Normal raids here ate like WoW’s LFR. Easy to do blind and half the group can mess up and you still clear. Savage here is like WoW’s mythic raids. It is brutal and unforgiving and full of sudden fast paced mechanics shifts.

WoW puts 2-3 tiers of content between that. While that does help you prepare for Mythic raids I don’t think it’s the actual solution. It diminishes the pool of people that try to get to the top, and splits the community.

But I would like to see some form of solo content that tests your ability to handle increasingly complex mechanics, and not just a target dummy DPS check. Something to help people struggling to close the massive gap between normal and savage. Being ready to farm normal is just not enough to even begin savage.

[Kaethra]

So dont try to tell me "its our holy duty to teach others". Im not here to guide every bad player during my freetime.

I'm not trying to tell you. I AM telling you. You are part of the problem if you won't teach people. Period.

Don't be the problem. Players that are part of the problem are bad players.

Be a good player.


These threads pop up once in a while and the one who posts them and people that agree with them all have one thing in common. They want to cede their responsibilities. "I dun wanna teach these people. They need to go through a tutorial!" That's right. They all want to waste time, money, resources, on something they themselves could do 100x better than any developer made tutorial.

But lets be honest here. Its not about helping players. Case in point:

If people have this attitude and are also ignorant on understanding/reading tool tips, then sorry, they wont learn "while doing". And if its the case.. then hell yes I am totally for forcing players into the hall of Intermediate.

Why should a developer listen to that? They shouldn't. Its a waste of time. Its the wrong attitude to have. Its not about helping players its about revenge. Developers don't code things into a game because someone's feelings got hurt or because of some petty argument that they had.

You deal with it. It what good players do. Don't be so arrogant to think your 'precious time' is better than others. Its not.

[Hawklaser]

I'm not trying to tell you. I AM telling you. You are part of the problem if you won't teach people. Period.

Don't be the problem. Players that are part of the problem are bad players.

Be a good player.


These threads pop up once in a while and the one who posts them and people that agree with them all have one thing in common. They want to cede their responsibilities. "I dun wanna teach these people. They need to go through a tutorial!" That's right. They all want to waste time, money, resources, on something they themselves could do 100x better than any developer made tutorial.

You deal with it. It what good players do. Don't be so arrogant to think your 'precious time' is better than others. Its not.

If every good player knew every job inside and out I might be able to get behind you. But thats not the case.

I honestly don't think these threads come out of spite or revenge like you think. It's easier to spot when someone isn't doing well than it is to teach someone about it for one simple reason. You have to know the job yourself to be able to teach it.

Most seem willing to help those that don't cop an attitude when it does get brought up that someone could improve in a group. I usually see things not go well if a group member does mention something.

This is where an improved tutorial would come in for those that use skip potions. It's could be as simple as just requiring them to do the job quest duties under a role play or item/level sync effect. Its just to help understand the bare bone basics of the job.

Or is that setting the bar to high for people in 50+ content? Just bare bone understanding. Or should we just settle for the tutorial on movement, targeting, and pushing one button thats forced before they hit a mailbox and can use the skip items?

The effect of the skip potions results in some being overwhelmed because too much gets dumped on them at once, others can handle piecing all of that together.

Either way you can't expect everyone to know how to teach a newbie every job. Some get very touchy when you even mention that they could be doing things differently. Those two things combined is why an improved tutorial would be worthwhile.

So sorry if players don't want to learn every job or deal with those that get overly upset when its politely mentioned that they could be doing better, and instead think a better use of their time might be seeing if an improved tutorial could be an option.