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  1. #1
    Player
    Anonymoose's Avatar
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    Anony Moose
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post
    That does depend on exactly how the Wings of Time work and what they can do with them. The screens in the final room indicate they might have the ability to observe across time and space (which would let them examine Omega as you suggested) but they don't seem to have been able to actually travel time prior to G'raha's single trip to the First, judging from the 'final message' we hear in the quest.
    What I mean is that once you can observe Omega and discern what it's doing, you can recreate its functions as a means of traversing the rift. It's a logical hierarchy.

    [1] The Emperor's Throne can breach a dimensional boundary. We saw it break into the void, which is small potatoes compared to breaking into a healthy dimension. However, if you're out to delete your own timeline, anyway, who cares how much power is required or what damage is done? And they had generations to work on that power source.

    [2] If you break directly into another dimension, chances are you're breaking into it "today", where it is relative to you right now. Ergo, you can't just charge the Throne and cut in. Who knows what would happen. Who knows if a hole directly between the Source and First wouldn't just unmake the distinction between them. You have to leave the Source, enter the Rift, navigate the rift, and enter the First.

    [3] You'll need the Wings of Time to attempt to not just end up at relative-today on the First. Even though the future Ironworks would figure out how to open a gate into the Rift, figure out how to navigate the Rift, and figure out where to aim for, he didn't stick the landing because relative-today wasn't where it "should have been;" time moves at the same speed within dimensions but the relativity between them oscillates unpredictably. Either way, the Emperor's Throne and the Wings of Time only get you so far. You need to know how to navigate the Rift. You need Omega tech.

    [4] You can use the Wings of Time to observe Omega directly, extrapolate the possibilities for what it could do, and use those possibilities to exclude all the ways it can't work to identify what it is doing and then try to replicate that tech. The Wings of Time are all about possibilities and extrapolation; it could "see" worlds that never existed and things that never came to be, but it didn't think it could improve anything by taking action itself to change time from a 4D perspective.

    [5] Use the Emperor's Throne to cut into the Rift, use the Omega tech to navigate the Rift, use the Wings of Time to step outside of the present and aim for a re-entry point, and then use the "summoning spell" to "unstick" people from where they "are" and bring them to where you "are" ... but that will be relative-today.
    (11)
    Last edited by Anonymoose; 08-06-2019 at 05:50 AM.
    "I shall refrain from making any further wild claims until such time as I have evidence."
    – Y'shtola

  2. #2
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
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    Aurelie Moonsong
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymoose View Post
    What I mean is that once you can observe Omega and discern what it's doing, you can recreate its functions as a means of traversing the rift. It's a logical hierarchy.
    I think there might be some confusion going on with terminology.

    The phrase "Wings of Time" is specifically invoked when calling Alexander to move through time.

    The mathematical ability to calculate possible futures is separate, and seems to be referred to as "Alexander's dream".

    Quotes:

    BIGGS AND WEDGE'S EXCELLENT ADVENTURE
    https://www.garlandtools.org/db/#quest/67872

    ROUNDROX
    Pssshkoh... Yes... Much swirlybright... Timewings...can spread... Travel to overtimes... Make bad things...good again...
    [...]
    Uplanders...hold on to braincases. Timewings...spread!

    JUDGEMENT DAY
    https://www.garlandtools.org/db/#quest/67874

    QUICKTHINX ALLTHOUGHTS
    O, Alexander! Lord of steel and whirlycogs! Outspread wings of time─let ignorant and unworthy feel divine judgment!

    Y'SHTOLA
    The codex responds... He means to return to the past!
    DAYAN
    Oh, if you could see the worlds we have seen! A world in which the Illuminati rule history with an iron fist, every nation brought under their yoke. A world in which Alexander spread wide the wings of time and swept the lesser moon from the heavens, averting the Calamity...
    DAYAN
    Were the wings of time to fall into the hands of the Illuminati, the repercussions would be dire indeed. History would be rewritten over and over again, each time bleeding the land of aether. And in the end, the colossus would usher in another calamity.
    And on "Alexander's dream"...

    DAYAN
    How best to put it? We stand inside a mathematical simulation, calculated and projected by the device at the heart of the colossus. One might equally say it is the dream that Alexander dreams...
    [...]
    Alexander dreamed all the realities imaginable─all the realities mathematically computable [...]


    So saying they could use the "wings of time" to observe Omega is dependent on them being able to open a real window through time and space to observe it without being detectable. Using the "dream" (supercomputer) to calculate its abilities is different.

    But by the way the phrase is used in Alexander, the Future Ironworks team haven't actually used the wings of time until that one moment where they "throw the switch and pray".



    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk View Post
    "Rise" is about the Illuminati rising up to use Alexander's power to solve all of their problems and dominate the world. Thematically, it's more Quickthinx's theme than Alexander's. Kind of a subtle hint that Alexander wasn't really the villain of the story at all.
    I did read the lyrics and think that, but the thought didn't make it into my post.

    'Locus' is definitely more generic (by chance or design?) but 'Rise' is specifically linked to the events of Alexander.
    (5)

  3. #3
    Player
    Anonymoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post
    The phrase "Wings of Time" is specifically invoked when calling Alexander to move through time.

    The mathematical ability to calculate possible futures is separate, and seems to be referred to as "Alexander's dream".
    That works. I was going by this, but that distinction fits here, too.

    Dayan
    How best to put it? We stand inside a mathematical simulation, calculated and projected by the device at the heart of the colossus. One might equally say it is the dream that Alexander dreams...

    Mide
    And what of our companions? Are they...?

    Dayan
    ...Their fate was not mine to change, Mide. All that came to pass did so for a reason. History is as it was─as it should be─free of the paradoxes that spelled its undoing.

    From this place─unfettered by the mortal construct of time─Alexander looks out upon past, present, and future, seeing infinite possibilities. I see what it sees, and feel what it feels─this perfect machine, born from yearnings for an ideal world.

    Oh, if you could see the worlds we have seen! A world in which the Illuminati rule history with an iron fist, every nation brought under their yoke. A world in which Alexander spread wide the wings of time and swept the lesser moon from the heavens, averting the Calamity...

    Alexander dreamed all the realities imaginable─all the realities mathematically computable─and in the end, reached a single, logical conclusion. It would change nothing, and erase itself from existence.

    Mide
    But...why?

    Dayan
    Alexander possesses the power to travel through time and space, and reshape history for the better─but such power comes at great cost. The sheer quantity of aether consumed in the process means that Alexander itself would─mayhap not immediately, but inevitably─bring ruin to this world. This perfect machine, this supreme manifestation of logic and science, deemed its own existence a threat.

    And so it chose to do nothing. To leave history untouched, and the future in the hands of man, with all his imperfections. Such was Alexander's divine judgment.

    A time will come when the fate of this world is placed in the hands of one warrior. For reasons hidden to me, the future from that day forth remains shrouded in mystery─beyond even the colossus's ability to calculate. And yet Alexander chose to believe in that [person], and the light within [them].
    Though it does raise some questions about the completely different category of time shenanigans we're dealing with in 5.0
    (1)
    "I shall refrain from making any further wild claims until such time as I have evidence."
    – Y'shtola