Petition to Remove Classes & Just Have Jobs

[ThePatriarch]

I think everything about the system sucks

[syntaxlies]

nah i'm not saying all by any stretch. i've just seen alot of posts in this thread saying remove classes and allow jobs more versatility cross classing skills. that's exactly what classes are. it seems more like they just want thm's to be named black mage and function exactly like thm did before. it makes me wonder if a bunch of people that begged for jobs only did so because they didn't like the names for the classes.

i'm not quite sure i agree with you on quality over quantity though. right now a black mage has a total of 20 skills. 20% of those skills are just a different version of lightning. it seems lazy and not of high quality design. it feels very lazy to make a combo for a black mage that is lightning>lightning>lightning. it feels lazy, not very well thought out, and very little effort put into it.

well the mages are lacking, they said they are adding spells to them in 2.0

[TheVedis]

go ahead and admit it. what people want is not jobs. what people want are exactly what classes were, but with just the name of the job on there. it's funny to listen to these same posters that kept defending jobs and how they would define the roles better and now that they are in they just want to remove classes and make the job the exact thing the classes were.

it's time for some to admit to themselves alot of their problem with gladiator had nothing to do with the class itself, but they were just mad that gladiator wasn't called paladin. the problem was not cross classing nor was it the fact of how it played, but nothing more than they didn't like it's name.

tons of people have admited thats exactly what they want too, and its what started this whole thread for the most part

[darkstarpoet1]

well the mages are lacking, they said they are adding spells to them in 2.0

oh i know. i'm one that personally loves the dd combo's. i think they were well thought out and a very nice addition.

i'm not very happy with the mage classes. the dev staff seems to be made of all dd's because the mage classes have been getting the raw end of the deal since the game was released. i just keep holding out hope that in 2.0 the mage classes can actually feel like the dev staff took time to make them fun to play. a black mage is very viable when it comes down to pure damage so i am not going to say make them viable. i just don't feel they are fun. when going against a mob it is just a pure spam the same combo over and over until out of mp.

at least the dd's have choices of which combo they use. i'd love to see them bring back an item such as flashfreeze. just instead of freeze it'd be basic flash tp move. with multiple different elements they could add into flashfreeze(ice), flashfire(fire), and flashingsky(thunder). at least a method like this would allow people to have an option of the next part of the combo.

that's part of the reason i love the dd combo's. they start with one thing and then depending on the second part they completely change their combo. that and the combo only takes tp for the first part of the combo. i feel that the thunder combo is pretty right in the second part is instant cast at least. to me a mage combo would be much better if the first part had the charge timer and the rest of the combo turned into instacast spells.

[Tricksy]

Ive been playing alot of FF Tactics and would love to see classes and jobs, turned into something along the lines of the beginning jobs in those Tactics games; WHM, BLM, THF, WAR, MNK, ARC. And then have every other job require some level prerequisite from the base jobs( and/or including later the advanced ones).

And have a clear second job (optional slot in tactics) skill set, where ALL of the second jobs abilities are usable (subject to w/e balancing SE believes neccesary).

Something like this

War lvl 30(previously MRD)-> Beserker lvl 30-> Something else from FF canon
Knight lvl 30(GLD)-> Paladin lvl 30-> Darkknight
White Mage lvl 30(CNJ)-> White Wizard or Time Mage, or Calculator, etc
Black Mage-> Geomancer or green mage, or blue mage etc

If nothing else and they stay with the current class and job system, which resembles my desires in a limited fashion already, true enough, I hope to see this

THF-> NIN
I feel theif to ninja is so hardcore engraved in ff canon I would hate to see anything else.

And a mix of the above jobs after achieving pre-req levels, can then allow for a plethora of jobs to come; SAM, SMN, BST, Chemist/Alchemist, Musketeer/Corsair, etc. Lots and lots.

My main points are;

I'd like to see them do away with the distinction of class and job. It seems messy and convoluted. And I hate the idea that they would keep working on a broken system instead of just planning out a vision of a new system that worked.

Id like to see main job, with traits and special abilities.

Then a chosen second job with as much abilities as possible, all would be preferred.

Id like to see job trees make sense but in all honesty the job pre reqs in the tacticsa games sont make alot of sense all the time anyways. So Im not put-off by ARC->Bard. Its when they try to make the "class" and "job" seem to be dependant on each other and share traits that makes me baffled. Like sure, you need lvl 30 Archer to unlock Bard, and yah a bard with a knife and a bow, or just a bow, is a new way of seeing Bard melee ( I used to love my utterly useless melee-ing on BRD in FF11 while playing my music.). But a "Bow Harp"?. Whose making these decisions, cause they are on all the wrong drugs. They need to sit down and play some FF tactics games (the games I feel they were able to create a huge amount of custimization) maybe FF2 and FF9, definitely FF11, drop some LSD or DMT. And then sit around and talk in groups. In fact, if they made a game worth playing, with any of these patches, or the release of 2.0. Then they can disregard my ranting. But the forums here, so Ima use it.

Having secondary jobs is totally non sensical like in tactics games when a Knight can "sub" black magic. But its similar in design to the early look of classes and how u could use most abilities on any given class (decent system in the beginning, as was the cool idea of SP taken from FF2 , both just needed polish, instead we got everything nerfed to high heaven and you can get a class to 50 in no time now... another tangent sawry). But nonsensical and possibly overpowered Main/Second jobs (with only the most neccesary balance and moderation). Would allow for, hopefully the end to "one way to play". The more jobs, the more diverse job pairings.

Otay Im done.

[AceofRains]

Why is this even a topic for discussion, I don't get it.

A job, is what its called exactly. A JOB. its your responsibly during a team effort.
yes, a class can be an effective DD, but its realllyyy meant for solo stuff. You won't be effective trying to kill things as a WHM, I know, I've tried and CNJ really gets the job done, same goes for bard/archer.

these complaints are all about whats in a name. This romeo and juliet "whats in a name is" completely played out. There is nothing in a name but also everything. The classes have been named aptly for their weapon. And jobs have been aptly applied for their role.

-Having classes restricts the amount of Bull**it jobs they can make.
And what I mean by this is refering to XI. Why did mages get like 50 magics and as a fighter class I get like 2 abilities. Talk about unbalanced. And things like PUP came out to be a joke because of things like this. Though each job could be strong independatly and with the right subjob, it usually came down to the same forumlas.

-Classes are prepped for PVP and solo, they have about the same amount of solo-duelist capability. They just play in different styles. The balance now comes down to player skill in a fight.

-Jobs are prepped for GVG and party based PVE/PVM, where specific roles need to happen.

-Weapon skills and base abilities are about the only thing that jobs will have in common with each other, after that each one can be completely unuque after a careful selection of 5 transferable skills and 5 job skills.

So what we get rid of the class system, add jobs and have the same thing we have now, WITHOUT SPECS?

or

We keep classes, and be able to actually develop new jobs in a way shorter amount of time. And have specialization so players can really find their own niche.

Remember talent trees from WoW? Yeah essentially what were working with here, combine that with your ability to allot a few stat points and you've got specialization.

[Lux_Rayna]

tons of people have admited thats exactly what they want too, and its what started this whole thread for the most part

Its good ole nostalgia talking. Let's face it, ppl love the title "black mage," and the look that goes with it. Hardly anyone, including myself, could give an accurate definition of a thaumaturge. Is that even English? Lol jokes aside, thats the cause of all the QQ.

I, for one, like classes. Now if I'm running something, I have real choices between gear, abilities, and stats that differ between my class and my job. Doing Ifrit? If I roll DRG i get increased dmg output, a 2nd combo i can hit from the rear, and an awesome elusive jump I can use to avoid sears. I lose rez, lose cure, so if i eat too many sears it could be a problem. Do we have WHM? Yes? In that case, assuming they heal me, DRG is probably the best option. What party wiped? Okay i'll use LNC for the rez, just in case things go wrong.

Classes add real depth to the system..they are a base class that can be expanded into more specific roles. If you are uncomfortable in those specific roles, or want more flexibility (ie first time doing a dungeon/run) then you can use the class effectively as well.

[Levian]

My issue with classes, or more specifically the current system, is essentially twofold. The first being from a balancing standpoint, if they plan to add a new class for each job things are going to get out of hand with a quickness. Branching out further from the base classes just seems like stretching too far. The other is that it just seems very cumbersome and awkward.

I can't say I have any concrete solutions to the predicament, but I can say I would much rather that the two entities be seperate. Tying them together seems to be a restriction to both, when perhaps they ought be mutually exclusive. That way you can balance them independantly around the content they're intended to excel at.

Honestly there are times when I think SE needs to make a decision as to which group to cater to, hardcore or casual. I don't think it's possible or plausible to expect a game to be capable of catering to both.

[Klive]

Honestly there are times when I think SE needs to make a decision as to which group to cater to, hardcore or casual. I don't think it's possible or plausible to expect a game to be capable of catering to both.

They have appeal to both. Hardcore group is a much smaller group than casual. MMOs have tried catering to hardcore and generally fall apart due to too small a player base. If appeal just to the casual, the game becomes to easy and boring. Really you need to have something for both. The hardcore need casuals to brag about shiny bobbles and achievement score. The casuals need hardcore to write the guides for battles they don't have time to try 100 times.