I thought Yoshi wants healer to focus on healing only..

[Enla]

I don't think expecting healers to always be casting is asking too much if they're experienced with their role. When someone is new to healing or just new to a fight in general I don't see much issue with hyper focusing on only healing while figuring out what's going on and trying to alleviate the sudden rush of stimuli. But once you know a fight and know your role well enough to where you're no longer running around like a headless chicken you should never be truly idle. Besides, it's just a good idea in general to practice multi-tasking in this game as it will make you better at not becoming overly stimulated during those inevitable 'oh heck no' moments where everything is going too hell.

That all said, if it's casual content I don't really care if a healer isn't hyper focusing on DPS. Because I get that some people have disabilities that make multi-tasking hard and that some people might just not be confident enough in their role to even try. All I ask is that you put out your dot and try to keep it up. Midcore and higher I will be annoyed with a healer isn't actually trying to help, but for dungeons and the 24 mans? Eh...? You do you.

[Dogempire]

this is an issue regarding those specific members not a job problem.
the party members can always kick those people if they believe their party members aren't helping or trying to improve but again healer dps shouldn't be mandatory to clear cause the dps who specialize in damage are there,again healer dps is in order to take pressure off the requirement from the others and help speed things up but its not a requirement for clearing.
as to why take such a healer,some of those groups are static who might know the healer,maybe they want to help him while knowing he wont dps much ,if its fine with the members there no real issue there.

*as a side note-from reading the posts and others comment, most of the healer community want more skills for during downtime to help further in parties and understand that dps during their healing downtimes will helps take the load off the other roles.
not to mention ,most of them will drop dps to keep up with the tanks and to keep them alive when they are in danger.
those players who only heal or only do dps are just those few who probably really bad at their jobs and probably became healer just to get a fast queue.

I mean with the current job balance issues healer dps is pretty mandatory for clears unless you're running something like BLM/MNK/DRG/SAM and you have very good players. The current gap between the best 4 and the worst 4 is very ridiculous and I don't think jobs like dancer or rdm will see black mage numbers until the next gear tier.

That being said, I do agree that a healer's #1 priority should be keeping everyone alive, but I'll never agree on the idea that it's acceptable to stand around and do nothing during times when no damage is going out. I see it as the tank equivalent of getting mad that they're expected to do dps when they want to simply grab aggro and stand in spot yelling at the dps to dps more.

[Nariel]

snip

One word : Balance.

If your basic heal or too much heal do damage to monster then you basicaly are an immortal being in every non hardcore content when enrage are not a thing, for it to work mean rebalancing the whole game to go accordingly.

You are not support only because balance, you have to be able to do quest alone, hunting alone or do whatever activity that don't require a team.

Heal DpS is mandatory in high end content because its part of your toolkit, high end content ask you to use everything you have the better you can.

The "heal are the more punished for doing their job" is quite wrong, you are in a party, its the party who is punished for mistake because the heal have to overwork because you had to, its what is expected of you. Only dummys blame the heal dropping DpS to repair others mistake.

[JunseiKei]

One word : Balance.

If your basic heal or too much heal do damage to monster then you basicaly are an immortal being in every non hardcore content when enrage are not a thing, for it to work mean rebalancing the whole game to go accordingly.

You are not support only because balance, you have to be able to do quest alone, hunting alone or do whatever activity that don't require a team.

Heal DpS is mandatory in high end content because its part of your toolkit, high end content ask you to use everything you have the better you can.

The "heal are the more punished for doing their job" is quite wrong, you are in a party, its the party who is punished for mistake because the heal have to overwork because you had to, its what is expected of you. Only dummys blame the heal dropping DpS to repair others mistake.

You're pulling up something I wasn't suggesting, so I'm having a hard time following what your point is. I'm not saying heal-bombing needs to be a thing. I'm also not saying healers shouldn't have any DPS spells because of questing alone, as incredibly infrequent as that is since a majority of most MMOs, and even this game, is done via a team. A party, if you will. Balancing for solo play when a majority of it is party-centric is a bit silly and comes across as an excuse to me. If solo was really what was sought, look to limited jobs.

You're simply stating 'things are the way they are because they are the way they are' and isn't exactly thought provoking. Also, a healer that has to expend as GCD to heal a DPS that made a mistake is directly punishing not one role, but both. The fault lies with the DPS that made the mistake, but it's two that take the hit in terms of DPS loss (provided they died or suffered something like E2S's damage down).

Yeah, but if you make it so you heal and do damage at the same time there’s no longer a feeling of balancing two priorities, which is something I love about healing. However, it would be nice if healing and damage dealing synergised more. They already do a little with WHM healing charging Misery, but I’d like to see a mechanic like that working in the other direction, too, like having each cast of a dps ability slightly lower the cooldown on tetra or benediction or something.

Also, I’d love a healer who healed through damage dealing, disc priest style. I just wouldn’t like healing and dealing damage to be conflated for all healers.

The other reason healer dps is good (although offensive buffing would be just fine too so long as it was complex enough to actually fill downtime, and not just a one button every few minutes thing like Chain Strategem) is that a dps’s job is never done (until the fight is over), but a healer’s job goes through periods of done-ness, especially if they’re doing their job well, and those periods need to be filled with something else useful.

See, you gave a suggestion that'd focus more on the healing aspect of healers through DPS means. That actually rewards healers for DPS. That's a really great suggestion. The stuff I was suggesting were just examples and why a healer focus (healing) is so divorced from the mentality (doing damage). I don't like the two being so segregated. If a DPS's job is never done, but a healer's kit also includes DPS, then a healer's job is never done as well (just stating this as this is not a pass for DPS as the same logic applies to all roles. That is not the focus of my statements - the separation of healing and DPS is and how backwards it is compared to the other roles). My suggestion for party utility being shifted to healers was because of a "support" ideal, because others have suggested it for those that'd like to see a purer support play-style. My suggestion for a channeling or concentrated spell would have filled the downtime when healing is not needed, but they were just examples.

In my opinion, White Mage is in a great spot for this union of healing to DPS. Having DPS neutral options just comes off as a great idea and I'd love to see this expanded on for all healers with various effects.

[Urthdigger]

Considering the statements of the past and healers' current kits and how they evolved to that state, they give healers the ability to DPS while their kits, updated skills, etc will remain focused on the healing aspect of the class. That's why I don't lament the loss of DPS spells on heals because it's not the focus (IE: SCH and WHM having 3 DoTs to keep up versus their current 1 DoT - that's just button bloat and false difficulty).

Would you be happy playing a DPS class where all you had was your one single "use weapon" button that you hit over and over again? Just one button and that's the entirety of your class? Do you feel that would be engaging, or fun in any way? Do you think people would want to play a class like that? The issue with losing DPS spells is that, as the party becomes better at the fight, there is less and less need to heal. Better gear, the healer getting better at their role, people getting hit by less avoidable things, all this leads to less healing. When less healing is required, some of us like to actually continue to contribute to the fight in spite of this, hence DPSing. Unfortunately, it feels like SE feels that our "reward" for doing well at content should be to then just spam a single button and occasionally one other button. Hooray.

[JunseiKei]

Would you be happy playing a DPS class where all you had was your one single "use weapon" button that you hit over and over again? Just one button and that's the entirety of your class? Do you feel that would be engaging, or fun in any way? Do you think people would want to play a class like that?

This is a hyperbole. If the DPS had to do other things outside of that one button, like healing, since healers have been regulated to "green DPS," then yes, because healers do this. They've done this as DoTs were only pressed every so often as it were and you spammed Broil or Stone 95% of the rest of the time. Astrologian has been the only class that has more consistent actions needed because of the card system that isn't a DPS spell. If this is something you truly hate, then that class is not for you, so take up another.

Better gear, the healer getting better at their role, people getting hit by less avoidable things, all this leads to less healing. When less healing is required, some of us like to actually continue to contribute to the fight in spite of this, hence DPSing.

Gear does not make you survive more. Well, it does, but it's not needed. You have all of the tools available to survive, or these world firsts wouldn't be nearly as fast as they are. If you're dying solely to damage, people aren't using mitigation correctly. Most people don't actually blindly prog, so aside from actually learning the mechanics (getting hit less by avoidable damage, etc), there shouldn't be a case of getting better at your role. You can map out the encounter for when to use raid buffs, mitigation, heals, etc., without ever stepping foot into it.

Unfortunately, it feels like SE feels that our "reward" for doing well at content should be to then just spam a single button and occasionally one other button. Hooray.

Yes, you've made it quite clear that you enjoy button bloat.

[NessaWyvern]

Or is Eden Savage an exception?

I was in an E1S practice party, so me and the other healer weren't doing much damage, and focusing on learning mechanics and keeping everyone alive. We ended up clearing XD
So for E1S at least, healers don't have to dps to clear.

[Hatstand]

This is a hyperbole. If the DPS had to do other things outside of that one button, like healing, since healers have been regulated to "green DPS," then yes, because healers do this. They've done this as DoTs were only pressed every so often as it were and you spammed Broil or Stone 95% of the rest of the time. Astrologian has been the only class that has more consistent actions needed because of the card system that isn't a DPS spell. If this is something you truly hate, then that class is not for you, so take up another.

Yes, you've made it quite clear that you enjoy button bloat.

SCH DoTs with bane weren’t button bloat. They were an interesting mechanic for dealing with multiple targets. You had to look at things, judge how fast they’re dying, whether the team is going to need emergency healing, and decide whether to DoT up a target and spread it or just skip to spamming nukes. Having only one DoT takes that mechanic away, because there’s no significant time investment in DoTing up one enemy, even if you can spread it.

They also added to bosses, because they had different durations, so it wasn’t like you were just hitting each button in sequence every 30 seconds. Keeping them up required some attention, whereas now SCH dps could be done efficiently by a drinking bird desk toy.

You know what I think is button bloat? Physick. A button no one ever uses because there’s always a more efficient heal option. Fey union and fey blessing could go, too, along with the entire fairy gauge. It’s such a boring mechanic and the devs have never seemed quite sure of what to do with it. Or they could improve it. I’d prefer an improvement but it’s not adding anything at the moment.

Back in ARR we had a functional healing kit with far fewer buttons, and because there’s a fairly fixed amount of healing needed, adding new healing buttons is only going to cause others to become more redundant. That’s not to say that I don’t like getting new healing toys. I do. But they shouldn’t come at the cost of skewing the ratio of defensive to offensive abilities as much as that ratio has been skewed.

[Hyperia]

I was in an E1S practice party, so me and the other healer weren't doing much damage, and focusing on learning mechanics and keeping everyone alive. We ended up clearing XD
So for E1S at least, healers don't have to dps to clear.

E1S is very forgiving in every way where E2S is the like Baseball's Green Monster, a massive wall. Even with heavy healer DPS most group don't clear. The mechanics are not difficult but the DPS check is stupid hard for the iLevel. I understand that the Devs want people to gear up to overcome issues but this wall is so steep that after a few weeks, many just give up and never come back. Even if they have the gear to clear later on, they wont, the damage is done, there gone till the next raid tier. E2S should have been much less of a massive jump but here we are and thus, healer DPS is absolutely mandatory to get anywhere in savage past E1S.

[NintendoAnimeFan]

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20768546750

Clearly WoW healers still have time to dps and it’s good manners to do so. Healer dps might be a lot weaker over there, but it doesn’t change the fact that doing something is better than doing nothing, and if you can contribute any dps while also healing it’s better for your party than just healing.

2nd sentence of the second post in that thread: “That said, in most content no one will care if you aren't.”

I played WoW from the end of Classic (just 5 months before the release of Burning Crusade), up until around halfway through Legion, and not once did I have someone tell me that I should be DPS-ing as a healer.

Not once.

In 10 years of playing.

In fact, I saw several occurrences where a healer tried to DPS in a dungeon or raid, and got kicked immediately for doing so. If you’re a healer, you’re expected to heal and nothing else. DPS-ing healers are not tolerated.

Also, I was a regular browser of the forums, and I never saw a single thread ever started about healers DPS-ing. The one you linked was apparently started a year ago, long after I stopped playing.