Either throw Tornado Kick away next expac...or FIX IT

[Shurrikhan]

The concept of the monk is "get buffs up, don't let them fall". Greased Lightning's design is not one of "this is a resource to spend." It was only after patch 4.2 (right?) that this concept even came up with Riddle of Wind. And, if I'm not mistaken, that was an *accident*. SE did not intend for the TK opener/burst window, where you TK and quickly rebuild stacks.

Now, I'm not saying that was a bad design. In fact, from everything I've read, monk mains thought it was fantastic. And I'll admit now, I'm still relatively new to the game (only about 5 months), and I'm not even a monk main, so I definitely defer to that judgment.

But SE culling it in 5.0 sends the clear signal that it wasn't design intent. TK is back to being super niche. The focus of the monk is, again, get GL up to max and keep it up--it's not a resource to be spent. I'm not saying it's the superior design, but it is the design they seem to be going for. And with the new Form Shift, the three "GL management" skills TK, 6SS, and Anatman (outside of being used in an opener, which I would be dollars to donuts, is not intended by SE) seem obviated.

Except it was far from the only aspect culled, and while they are quick to notice aspects unintentionally added (especially where they improve a job's performance), they have almost never admitted to the aspects removed from a class through streamlining, which is all that 5.0 MNK is based on (out with the idiosyncrasies, in with the mirrored play). Going from HW to SB we lost another core concept, timing our forms in order to allow for positional freedom and minimization of DoT clipping. Nothing was given to replace that except an obtuse True North, giving too much at any one time and those times too few and far between, and reduced positional bonuses. Mid-combat Meditation to reward melee-downtime (previously the strongest potency per GCD's time of any ranged skill among melee) was likewise destroyed by the TFC nerfs attached to Deep Meditation, yet there was absolutely zero compensation for cutting MNK's ranged-skill-equivalent to about half its former relative strength. We've lost very real parts time and time again when the developers have considered MNK "too difficult"; why would this trimming be any less a mistake?

Any resource which can situationally reward the player more greatly through its expenditure than through its maintenance (just like Geirskogul at sub-10 seconds in HW, when BotD would be back up before your next Jump or SSD) is a resource to be spent. The maintenance part will always be there, but there is no point in excluding everything else; GL doesn't have to be limited to just existing any more than Darkside does and having been given a chance to play with both sides of the equation, one can and should expect MNKs to be disappointed at how TK has been treated without compensation.

[Sqwall]

The concept of the monk is "get buffs up, don't let them fall". Greased Lightning's design is not one of "this is a resource to spend." It was only after patch 4.2 (right?) that this concept even came up with Riddle of Wind. And, if I'm not mistaken, that was an *accident*. SE did not intend for the TK opener/burst window, where you TK and quickly rebuild stacks.

Now, I'm not saying that was a bad design. In fact, from everything I've read, monk mains thought it was fantastic. And I'll admit now, I'm still relatively new to the game (only about 5 months), and I'm not even a monk main, so I definitely defer to that judgment.

But SE culling it in 5.0 sends the clear signal that it wasn't design intent. TK is back to being super niche. The focus of the monk is, again, get GL up to max and keep it up--it's not a resource to be spent. I'm not saying it's the superior design, but it is the design they seem to be going for. And with the new Form Shift, the three "GL management" skills TK, 6SS, and Anatman (outside of being used in an opener, which I would be dollars to donuts, is not intended by SE) seem obviated.

This right here. If SE really truly believes that TK is ONLY used for when your about to kill something or lose stacks (not likely now). Then it is an execute skill at this point. Then MAKE it an execute skill, and only usable with only 20% HP left on mob/boss. This I'm sure will be blaspheme for all the theory crafters out there that spend every second of their rotation MAXIMIZING! I'm not that kind of person....it's a game....I use this to DESTRESS....I don't need eliteist telling me WHEN to use TK.

I actually put TK back on my hotbar, and tried using it during riddle of fire + brotherhood and it hits for like 40-50k+ critical hit. Using Forbidden to supplement my DPS to work back up to 3-4 GL depending which stance I switch to after TK drop. But there is still anatman annnnddd I don't know where it fits honestly, the most I can come up with on anatman is following a SSS TK combo you throw anatman down. I'm sure other top tier MNK players will let me know what i'm supposed to do...they usually objectify those that have a different rotation then them.

[Rockette]

Personally, I think this iteration of Monk is the most technical its ever been at. The need for a server tick addon to optimally do the opener as well as now using Perfect Balance as a dps buff for DK - Leaden Fist spam and optimally working that in with RoF.

There's also the whole min maxing of when it's right to drop from RoW back to RoF to align buffs etc etc.

Looking through these 5.0 raid guides as well as levelling Monk before the Greased Lightning changes miserably through MSQ has me at some serious burn out.

I too felt like the TK rotation was a natural progression. It kind of just felt like getting a 4th combo during RoF.

However, SE did listen in regards to the slow on RoF, the misery of keeping GL and the odd exclusion of the extra 5 seconds every other job got on their combo. It's just Anatman, PB as a buff and GL4 have thrown some serious big brain min maxing spanners in.