The idea that we need to DPS must go.

[technole]

It's funny when people keep bringing up the line about YoshiP tuning savage raids with 0 healer dps. You mean when everyone has welfare tome gear and echo which is several months away. Simply put you are not clearing Titan Savage in week one with no healer DPS, let alone Eden Prime Savage without healer damage contribution. That's a fact.

Sure with the changes and these Eden raids there is more healing involved, but we've gotten to the point in the game there is a lot of one-button healing cool downs that manual healing isn't a rather common thing aside from a few mechanics or putting a band-aid on a situation when something like Lustrate or Tetra isn't available.

Good healers are always casting just like a good DPS would, and that includes damage. If you don't, you're just not good.

[ColdestHeaven]

Would you, as a healer, truly be content with the tank doing once or twice their AOE combo every once in a blue moon to keep aggro? Yes, even in single target because that's enough and is still shinier than the single target one, usually, so bonus points for style?

Because that's what some of these arguments sound like to me. This is an extreme example, of course...inb4 anyone answers "Yes!": that would increase the dungeon/trial/instance duration by a significant amount. That's assuming DPS know what they are doing, which...isn't always the case considering they don't have just two buttons to DPS adequately. Yoshi-P said they aren't forcing healers to DPS in hard content, which makes sense because they have other responsabilities which fall to healers, such as healing checks and/or prey mechanics - but that doesn't mean they shouldn't. Devs calibrating numbers of a boss HP doesn't equate to them not considering healers at all, besides.

This is a game in which you are required to play in a team, so only doing what is strictly necessary is by itself a selfish way of playing - you honestly can't expect sympathy by doing so. Each class of each role has abilities which don't necessarily fit in the role they are in if you take it. While I don't pay anyone's sub, I'm pretty sure no one pays mine either -and yet I gladly do whatever is needed to make an instance run smoother or quicker, regardless of my role, including DPS as a healer. And I do expect just as much in return for my effort, because no one likes carrying lazy people on their back.

[Lodi]

So tell your DPS to stop slacking, lol.
Yoshi-P has already stated that they tune raids with 0 healer DPS. Meaning if it was your healer DPS that got you through the fight, Your DPS need to get better. Tanks too.

Sure, I'll just tell my random PF dps to stop slacking and they'll instantly learn their rotation better and increase their gcd uptime to 100%, even if they are exhausted after four hours of mechanics practice!


Joking aside, the 0 healer dps can't be true. You'd need to always find top-tier players to clear content without healer dps.
We have a braindead rotation that packs a punch at the cost of zero effort and 400MP every 2.5s, to not use it would be plain dumb.

Oh, and my tanks were performing decently, too.

[Leiloni]

I agree with you OP and I notice a ton of people overheal, but there's little downside to doing so which is the problem. First they'd have to introduce incentives to minimize overhealing and optimize heal usage. But they'd also need to design encounters so there's less bursty damage and more consistent damage. That would encourage more consistent healing instead of burst windows where people take a ton of damage and then windows where they take little or none at all for long periods of time - that's what encourages dpsing, because what else would we do?

So I like your ideas but it requires SE to change the paradigm of healing and encounter design entirely. I'd love that, but it's doubtful it'll happen.

[IttyBitty]

The only way you're clearing week one without healer DPS is if you have absolutely perfect play from everybody (because while fights are not designed with healer DPS in mind, they are designed for a higher ilevel than is available at release) and even then that may not be enough.

Perfect play. Just so 2 people can neglect half of their kit and pick their noses for the majority of a fight. Get out of here with that garbage.

[WaxSw]

As I said in another post "As healer your job is to maximize your damage while keeping your party and yourself alive, if you want to do just one of those things you're not doing your job properly and you can't call yourself a good healer"

[Dogempire]

So tell your DPS to stop slacking, lol.
Yoshi-P has already stated that they tune raids with 0 healer DPS. Meaning if it was your healer DPS that got you through the fight, Your DPS need to get better. Tanks too.

Yes, because an orange or purple parse player wants to put so much effort into making sure their rotation is as good as possible for the encounter just so the healer can neglect their damage rotation which is literally 2 buttons and so easy a donkey could do it.

Let's hit enrage several times because we only managed to get the boss to 1% hp and we could have cleared it if our dps timed their burst windows with raid buffs better.

Or you could stop being so lazy and actually contribute and not have 6 party members to play at 120% while worrying about mechanics just so the healers can play at 20% and stand around all the time.

Just a thought

[Conna]

There is really something what bothers me a lot since 5.0 about changes reactions.

I read : we have nothing to heal. I wanna say : show me a ShB dungeon run with 1 tank and 3 DPS.

Without going this far, top speed kill of new Ex Primal/Sadique nearly always got 2 healer. So if ne heal was required, why bother bringing an healer instead of a dps ?

I think the true felling is : "My oGCD heal are usually enough to heal". But in order to achieve this, you have to play healer very well, that's a logical things if you pley FFXIV for a long time. But can't you remember your firsts experiences as healer in FFXIV ?...
Ok this one may be irrevelent as early dungeon was deadly simple. However, it doesn't change the fact new healers cannot have this knowledge of the game that allow you to go nearly full DPS spells.

Let's talk about down time, and for this i will take in exemple Titania Ex. This fight got one healer stress moment which is add phase, and mostly bug add phase, with a lot of dommage and mecanics to deal with. Can anyone bears a fight of 10 minutes with this kind of intensity ? Maybe this is a bit hard for "only" an extreme trial.

And one last things, back to HW. Who were happy when seeing a SCH never quit clearic stance for a 1st week run of Mach or Dun Scaith ? I don't, and i heave see way to many of this : SCH is a healer with a heal pet, not a DPS with a heal pet.

Having any kind of DPS rotation on healer would i think scares new player to get to the role, as having donwtime to DPS as an healer is something you earned by mastering your jobs, not by default, or simply, the more you master, the more downtime you get. And this is not rewarding enough for you ?

Twintania progression was like this back in 2.0 because people were severely undergeared due to SE releasing binding coil before crystal tower which was meant to help gear for it. It was a glorious time to be a healer !!!

[PondHollow]

The only way you're clearing week one without healer DPS is if you have absolutely perfect play from everybody (because while fights are not designed with healer DPS in mind, they are designed for a higher ilevel than is available at release) and even then that may not be enough.

Perfect play. Just so 2 people can neglect half of their kit and pick their noses for the majority of a fight. Get out of here with that garbage.

I agree with everything you said except the "half of their kit" part. DPS isn't half of the healer's kit. It should be! But the developers have conspired to make it ever more a slog, and it's not like it was fancy before Shadowbringers either.

I could almost forgive healers in non-Savage/Extreme content for not attacking, for aversion to monotony.

[ksuyen]

I appreciate this thread.

Saying that healers don't need to DPS is as bad as saying healers must include DPS in their rotation - while in fact it's all circumstantial.

Let's considered this scenario:
A WHM and a SCH are healing Eden. The WHM is a type who thinks he must do DPS while SCH is a type who think DPS is not needed as a healer. From the start, the WHM is barely healing anyone even though healing is required. So all healed was done by SCH who then do nothing at all when no heal is required. Both are adamant they are doing the right thing,

Now let me ask you, who is really doing the right thing? The answer is neither. As a healer we have a responsibility to keep everyone alive, that’s the first priority. But we also need to assist DPS-ing the boss when there is nothing to do (no one is injured, tanks are fully top-up, no one standing in dangers) because the faster the boss down, the less trouble you will get into.