Tank Mitigation vs Tank DPS.

[Taika]

If you take into account all the Crit/SKS/Det your melding together with Tenacity, i'm sure it will be close/equal or even surpass you melding Direct Hit in terms of Damage increase.

As you can see from the images, those calculations included DH melds in every single slot where Tenacity couldn't be melded, so your claim is again false.

[Typhoria]

People doesn't seem to take into account, that if a Tank melds Direct Hit, it will be only Direct Hit on every slot. You can't slot Tenacity on every slot. So your going to have space for Crit/Det/SKS and even DH.

If you take into account all the Crit/SKS/Det your melding together with Tenacity, i'm sure it will be close/equal or even surpass you melding Direct Hit in terms of Damage increase.

I have a tank with 3200+ Tenacity right now? I only have PLD at 80 atm but we can test it out right now doing Eden normal floor 1. The only rule is, no Tictures, just you and me queuing together.

Current 5.0 stat weights:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...tat_intervals/

From the link.

"I'm starting this by stating immediately that THESE ARE NOT JOB STAT WEIGHTS, these are just raw stat interval data pulled from http://theoryjerks.akhmorning.com/ , these should only be used as a basis to work off of until full stat weights come out. Each job interacts with stats in different ways, and I'll cover those when I cover the stats below."

This why we can't have nice things.

[RareItems]

As you can see from the images, those calculations included DH melds in every single slot where Tenacity couldn't be melded, so your claim is again false.

I would read your "Calculations" if they were "readable". Sorry you wasted your time on Microsoft Excel making up numbers lol. Why don't you queue up with me on Eden Normal floor 1 and bring your Direct Hit loaded Tank and we can find out? Or is Eden Normal too hard for you?

[Taika]

I would read your "Calculations" if they were "readable". Sorry you wasted your time on Microsoft Excel making up numbers lol.

Despite your trolling, to let others know, the numbers are from the tank DPS calculator freely accessible to everyone: http://bit.ly/XIV50TANKDPS

And the calculations are based on the Theoryjerks' testing (http://theoryjerks.akhmorning.com/stats), which you yourself were referring above (https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...stat_intervals). :P I'll stop feeding the troll now, everyone who wants to can repeat or correct those calculations based on the data openly available.

[RareItems]

Despite your trolling, to let others know, the numbers are from the tank DPS calculator freely accessible to everyone: http://bit.ly/XIV50TANKDPS

And the calculations are based on the Theoryjerks' testing (http://theoryjerks.akhmorning.com/stats), which you yourself were referring above (https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...stat_intervals). :P I'll stop feeding the troll now, everyone who wants to can repeat or correct those calculations based on the data openly available.

Oh so you don't even have a tank job leveled? and your making assumptions? lol. GG. And you saying i'm trolling.

[Stanelis]

Hmm, not sure when you played in WoW, but tank survival wasn't a problem in harder content. Naxx 40 was a roadblock since we suddenly needed extra tanks, not gear, for Four Horsemen. Before that C'thun was bugged and no one was clearing it until fixed due to mechanics.

Burning crusade it was about DPS galore to beat enrage timers in higher level raids like Black Temple and eventually Sunwell was about DPS until M'uru, then it was about DPS and survival, people using Drum Buffs and tanks stacking as much dodge etc to avoid the damage of adds North and South while another tank picked up voids, then it was about pure DPS to time the transition(This is all pre nerfs)

WotLK was again about DPS. Soft and Hard enrage timers, harder content purely about damage done like Death's Demise Yogg'saron achievement and later Algalon when added. Icecrown was about the same, minus a few fights where one relied on spamming heals on an NPC while tanks went for mitigation, but DPS was needed to clear ads quickly.
We won't discuss the boredom of the coliseum =P

Come to think about it, every hard encounter in WoW, DPS is what made the kill happen, not the tanks survival. This is coming from a Death's Demise title holder, though we did get gear as well, it was a balancing act for distributing gear based on what was needed at the moment in time. Each raid that came out, previous raid tier was enough to begin. I mean heck... We cleared WotLK Naxx in our Sunwell Gear first week.

You didn't really care about tank DPS in wow before mop beside for holding aggro. Also, go say to brutallus or the like of it that tank survival didn't matter. The fact you need DPS doesn't imply you don't need survival too.

[Ultimatecalibur]

I did some calculations using that calculator to figure out roughly the difference between a build that tried to maximize Tenacity and one that tried to minimize Tenacity at i470 for a Paladin.

The maximized Tenacity build averaged 8646.41 damage with 8.4% mitigation. The minimized Tenacity build ended up averaging 8877.26 damage with 2.4% mitigation.

This means that the minimized build averages ~2.66% more damage dealt and takes ~5.4% more damage than the maximized build. The flip side is that the maximized build averages ~2.6% less damage dealt and takes ~6.15% less damage.

[RareItems]

Tenacity = 33 per 0.1% DPS, HPS, and Damage Reduction

Direct Hit = 6 per 0.1% chance / 24 per 0.1% DPS Gain

8646.41 Tenacity will give you 26.2% DPS gain, Damage Mitigation and Damage Reduction.

You can't even get to 8646.41 Tenacity. The highest Tenacity you can get is 3214 which is when you Pentameld the new ilvl450 crafted Fending gear. 3214 Tenacity gives you 9.7% Damage Increase, Damage Mitigation and HPS.

If a tank melded only Direct Hit on the ilvl450 Crafted gear, he could reach 2780 Direct Hit meaning he would gain a 46.3% chance to deal 11.5% Damage increase.

The fact that Direct hit doesn't even give you a 50% chance to deal its 11.5% damage increase while Tenacity gives 9.7% damage increase/Dmg Mitiagation and HPS 100% of the time, makes Tenacity better.


46.3% chance of dealing 11.5% more damage vs 100 chance of dealing 9.7% damage increase / Damage Mitigation / Self healing + Crit/Skillspeed/Det.

[Barraind]

You didn't really care about tank DPS in wow before mop beside for holding aggro

They also handled gearing so there wasnt really a way TO avoid picking up mostly defense stats on tank gear.

We didnt theorycraft about how much def to not take for damage, it was comparing practical effects of dodge vs parry vs block/bval and accepting we had to take x defense. 14 has comparably fewer stats and overweights them, so gearing is more about figuring out which 2 of the 5 stats for your class are the best and mashing them into every slot possible. Or, unlike EQ, you arent planning your gearsets around taking 6 different stats to their hardcaps while also making sure your gear has the 3-8 focus effects you need while not sacrificing AC or mana regen or haste or a small amount of strikethrough / CE.

Those games actually emphasized focus on role though. Healers mostly healed, and had significantly more healing options that let them downrank to save mp or cast faster, tanks focused on tanking and offered buffs or debuffs or group healing for ae fights, dps went pewpew, supports supported and helped you pewpew.

46.3% chance of dealing 11.5% more damage vs 100 chance of dealing 9.7% damage increase / Damage Mitigation / Self healing.

1. Thats not the relative tenacity gain of one set over the other.

2. Damage reduction from tenacity is never better than 80% effective due to how DR works. In practice it is never better than 64% effective.

you can't even get to 8646.41 Tenacity.

I know you cant understand anything beyond basic "NO UR NOT RITE LOLOL" but please try.

[RareItems]

They also handled gearing so there wasnt really a way TO avoid picking up mostly defense stats on tank gear.

We didnt theorycraft about how much def to not take for damage, it was comparing practical effects of dodge vs parry vs block/bval and accepting we had to take x defense. 14 has comparably fewer stats and overweights them, so gearing is more about figuring out which 2 of the 5 stats for your class are the best and mashing them into every slot possible. Or, unlike EQ, you arent planning your gearsets around taking 6 different stats to their hardcaps while also making sure your gear has the 3-8 focus effects you need while not sacrificing AC or mana regen or haste or a small amount of strikethrough / CE.

Those games actually emphasized focus on role though. Healers mostly healed, and had significantly more healing options that let them downrank to save mp or cast faster, tanks focused on tanking and offered buffs or debuffs or group healing for ae fights, dps went pewpew, supports supported and helped you pewpew.




1. Thats not the relative tenacity gain of one set over the other.

2. Damage reduction from tenacity is never better than 80% effective due to how DR works. In practice it is never better than 64% effective.



I know you cant understand anything beyond basic "NO UR NOT RITE LOLOL" but please try.

Please explain then how can you get 8646.41 Tenacity? wait, lemme get some popcorn first.

That's the problem with the Elitist Raiding community lol. They can't even do basic math. The guy already made a formula and ppl still can't calculate it right.

Again using the formula:

Tenacity = 33 per 0.1% DPS, HPS, and Damage Reduction

Direct Hit = 6 per 0.1% chance / 24 per 0.1% DPS Gain

If a tank melded only Direct Hit on the ilvl450 Crafted gear, he could reach 2780 Direct Hit meaning he would gain a 46.3% chance to deal 11.5% Damage increase.

The fact that Direct hit doesn't even give you a 50% chance to deal its 11.5% damage increase while Tenacity gives 9.7% damage increase/Dmg Mitiagation and HPS 100% of the time, makes Tenacity better.


46.3% chance of dealing 11.5% more damage vs 100 chance of dealing 9.7% damage increase / Damage Mitigation / Self healing + Crit/Skillspeed/Det.