How about we change the "dps check" a little?

[Hezzlocks]

What kind of fail condition would you suggest that can make the best players of the game fail but still somehow not impede casuals?

Absolutely none. It's physically impossible to make something incredibly difficult for even the best players yet still be accessible and viable for the average skilled casual player to complete, let alone the bad players. Which is how it should be.

So yeah, Savage and Ultimate especially should remain difficult for the best players. If the casual players want to see the extra phases Savage brings they can watch a youtube kill. If casual players want to *do* the fight and get the loot, they can dedicate some time towards bettering themselves and get into a static. You don't need to be a no-lifer to do this. It's a simple combination of muscle memory, reaction speed and memorising the fight. Sure, not everyone is *physically* capable of doing this, but such is the way of life, I'm afraid. I myself am not physically capable of participating at the Olympic Games, doesn't mean I get to demand that they change the rules to allow me a chance at getting a gold medal.

[Nora_of_Mira]

All I'm getting in opposition to this is a lot of non-specific banter about "participation trophies," and how bad that is. What specifically is being lost if this hypothetical, where casuals could clear Savage content for lesser rewards, were to happen?

you're losing any sense of pride and accomplishment.

while that line is a meme, it is partially true. You don't see any World First clears on dungeons or MSQ trials. You only see them when the content is deserving of the effort with high difficulty and high bar for clearing. you have to be decent at this game to clear these fights while they're current. "clearing" the fight under some "casual" setting will never be seen as a real clear in current content.

the "easy mode" you speak of already exists, its the option to unsync these fights way in the future when you're 100 iLvls higher than the fight.

[Lium]

Life will let you know you're bad. Life will punch you in the gut, take everything of worth from you, and leave you sitting in a bath full of ice with one of your kidneys missing.

That got dark way fast.

[Vaer]

tbh They already give you comparable to raid level gear at a time delay. Seems like a decent compromise to me.

Due to this, if they started handing out an item for every group that could use a turtle/shield/raise strat just to dance around long enough to get to the enrage a lot more people would end up more geared by the time their usual catch up patch lands kinda defeating a lot of the point of it.

Also will eventually snowball as groups that usually take a month or a couple of months to beat the whole thing doing it properly get overgeared because they are getting freebies from each fight just for surviving. The game would turn into a laughing stock at that point and the gear progression system would pretty much collapse.

So it's pretty much in their best interest to not do it anyway.

[Hezzlocks]

That got dark way fast.

That's what makes me the Warrior of Darkness, pal!

[van_arn]

I just want to know how bad a group was for someone to make this suggestion as anything other than a joke.

Who hurt you?

[giwaman]

So does a troll post such as like this also gets Enrage or just a bootleg reward? if so i applaud your effort!!!!

[Selova]

I don't really understand this mentality when it comes to a game. When everyone's paying the same amount no one should be locked out of or denied content for not being good at it; there should just be "better" rewards for those who are good at it.

I do think casual players simply not being allowed to clear certain content is dumb. Not that I feel it's a huge deal, as there is plenty of casual content; but you people preaching about "participation trophies," need to stop getting so much of your sense of self-worth from a video game.

The same could be said for the mentality of "I pay my sub so I should be able to experience all the content" your sub pays only to access the servers, nothing more. You aren't owed anything just because you pay a monthly sub.


Also, there us nothing barring casual players from content. There are plenty of casual players that clear savage and ultimate, being casual has nothing to do with skill level.

If someone finds worth from achieving something in a video game by overcoming something difficult who are you to dictate how they find their self worth? People play games for lots of reasons, just because the way certain people play doesnt match your personal playstyle does not mean you get to decide how they should be playing and enjoying the game.


The game has a over abundance of easy content, we dont need more content being degraded into loot pinatas. There is content for all skill levels, if you cant do the content, you dont get the rewards period.

[Hawklaser]

The dirty little truth that some refuse to face is the simple fact that they are unwilling to put in the effort to receive the reward they think they are entitled to.

It's not the contents fault, its not their parties fault. It's solely their own lack of effort. We all have the same access to the same content. We all get the same random assortment of good and bad DF party members unless we took the time to form our own groups.

The only constant across all groups and content is ones own effort.

Once you decide to finally face that truth, maybe, just maybe you will also realize there is nothing wrong with not handing out rewards for failure.

[UnrealTai]

you're losing any sense of pride and accomplishment.

while that line is a meme, it is partially true. You don't see any World First clears on dungeons or MSQ trials. You only see them when the content is deserving of the effort with high difficulty and high bar for clearing. you have to be decent at this game to clear these fights while they're current. "clearing" the fight under some "casual" setting will never be seen as a real clear in current content.

the "easy mode" you speak of already exists, its the option to unsync these fights way in the future when you're 100 iLvls higher than the fight.

This ^

SE already destroyed the sense of kill accomplishment in PVP for 5.0, because a minor amount of pvpers cried they were too stupid to figure out how to kill a healer.

We dont need that boring garbage brought to PVE as well

I mean 14 is already crazy easy compared to MMOs a decade ago, I cant fathom it going any easier.
IMO it could make do by making it harder, and old content at least require minimum ilvl settings. Really prefer to not fall asleep mid play from content being nerfed and boring.