How about we change the "dps check" a little?

[Vahlnir]

I'm all for anything that dismantles the mentality of damage > everything else, particularly with green dps and tanks favouring increasing dps stats and completely ignoring mitigation stats, but this is not the way to do it. Participation awards are one of the many things wrong with society these days. Life isn't going to just give you everything you want. If you're bad at something, life won't give you some money and a pat on the head and send you off. Life will let you know you're bad. Life will punch you in the gut, take everything of worth from you, and leave you sitting in a bath full of ice with one of your kidneys missing. Participation awards do nothing to prepare children for the harsh reality of life, and we don't need any of that junk here.

No, if you want damage to no longer be such an all encompassing requirement, you would need to change the design of the game itself to make healing and mitigation far more important and worthwhile, because as much as I dislike the everyone-is-a-dps way of doing things, it can't be denied that its like that because the game is set up in a way where mitigation and extra healing is entirely pointless and dps requirements are tight.

Well said.

[stanrir]

you should not be rewarded for being bad

[SenorPatty]

No. Not a good idea, even in theory or execution.

In theory, your surmise that savage/ex content will be more accessible becaus even though some people might not pass the dps check, they'd be able to clear the raid. Nvm that dps checks are twofold in those type of content:

-The clear before you hit enrage (covert dps check)
-The actual dps check (overt)

Chances are a party that can't even clear a dps check will not even be able to clear the raid itself. Furthermore, not all fights are based around it. Some fights are actually more mechanic intensive, which is what most people who don't like to do savage/ex want to avoid.

And what about the actual execution of such an idea? Toxic levels are not gonna lower. They will rise. It's one thing to fail the current checks. It's another when the higher rewards are contingent on not failing it. I'm not gonna bother explaining the obvious ramifications about that. Let's delve into something else here.

The content was created for those who don't mind putting in the work and time to clear. This idea essentially kills this and opens a can of worm because it sets a precedence for closing the gap between those who live for challenging content and those who don't care for it. What's next, free pass for heal checks? Maybe a free all party resurrection? Or maybe tank checks are just straight up gone and they can blue dps without worry.


Here's a better idea: leave the 5% content to the 5percenters alone. The players that can't fathom that in a mmorpg, not all content rewards will be served up on a platter for them need to deal with it.

[Granyala]

Honestly, in stead of binary pass/fail checks on virtually every boss I'd like to see more soft enrages, where the boss gradually overwhelms the raid through mechanics or adds etc.

Not because I want easier encounters but mostly because I consider it a more interesting way.

[Zaiekk]

[Nedkel]

No. Not a good idea, even in theory or execution.
In theory, your surmise that savage/ex content will be more accessible becaus even though some people might not pass the dps check, they'd be able to clear the raid. Nvm that dps checks are twofold in those type of content:
-The clear before you hit enrage (covert dps check)
-The actual dps check (overt)
Chances are a party that can't even clear a dps check will not even be able to clear the raid itself. Furthermore, not all fights are based around it. Some fights are actually more mechanic intensive, which is what most people who don't like to do savage/ex want to avoid.
And what about the actual execution of such an idea? Toxic levels are not gonna lower. They will rise. It's one thing to fail the current checks. It's another when the higher rewards are contingent on not failing it. I'm not gonna bother explaining the obvious ramifications about that. Let's delve into something else here.
The content was created for those who don't mind putting in the work and time to clear. This idea essentially kills this and opens a can of worm because it sets a precedence for closing the gap between those who live for challenging content and those who don't care for it. What's next, free pass for heal checks? Maybe a free all party resurrection? Or maybe tank checks are just straight up gone and they can blue dps without worry.

Here's a better idea: leave the 5% content to the 5percenters alone. The players that can't fathom that in a mmorpg, not all content rewards will be served up on a platter for them need to deal with it.

How would making 1/2 progress be more frustrating than doing 0? I dont get the lack of logic behind it.
What i meant by double rewards is, if your team will fail the dps check but still clear the raid you still get it, but if you go for a second run you will be able to get another one if you kill it before the enrage timer.

This is going to make things easier to progress, less frustrating when the things go wrong multiple times in a row. In this type of content team organisation and the selection plays the biggest role and then your personal skill takes the place in importance after the team overal performance which you could not control.
Since SE is so strong against any kind of parses and they are not going to introduce it at all into their game, dont you think it is quite ironical they demand you to get them on the PC to learn how to do 80+% and then reward you with the best gear in the game?
I found it ridiculous and off putting.

[Hezzlocks]

Honestly, in stead of binary pass/fail checks on virtually every boss I'd like to see more soft enrages, where the boss gradually overwhelms the raid through mechanics or adds etc.

Not because I want easier encounters but mostly because I consider it a more interesting way.

I generally prefer FF14 raid bosses to WoW raid bosses, but this is one thing WoW does better. Whether it be via available safe space getting smaller and smaller, or some source of constant raidwide damage getting bigger and bigger, many fights are usually "over" long before any hard enrage kicks in, yet at the same time offers a little leeway that allows the truly skilled and daring to potentially last a little bit longer than many others would and potentially get the kill. The only boss I can think of like this in FF14 is a dungeon boss, the last boss in Amaurot. Even when all the little platforms are gone it's actually possible to survive the Apokalypsis with excellent play.

Alternate lose conditions would also work, such as with Azshara in WoW, who will go around attempting to break the locks of an old god prison, and it's instant wipe if they all break. Because of this sometimes sacrificing someone to repair a lock as much as possible, will buy the group much needef time to finish her off.

There are many ways of designing boss wipe conditions. They don't all need to be DPS centric

[Magnedeus]

That's incredibly stupid.

[MPK]

10/10 bait. 3000 response get

[Urthdigger]

Look, I know you just picked up a DPS class because you're allergic to contributing and want to play something where you can just auto-attack through the whole dungeon and still pass, but at the higher levels of play people are going to expect you to, ya know, contribute. You can't just let the tanks and healers carry you through everything the whole game, sooner or later you're going to have to actually learn how to play the game and be a member of the team.