How about we change the "dps check" a little?

[Aramina]

I don't really understand this mentality when it comes to a game. When everyone's paying the same amount no one should be locked out of or denied content for not being good at it; there should just be "better" rewards for those who are good at it.

I do think casual players simply not being allowed to clear certain content is dumb. Not that I feel it's a huge deal, as there is plenty of casual content; but you people preaching about "participation trophies," need to stop getting so much of your sense of self-worth from a video game.

Tell me what games allow you to fail at something then continue to the next part of the game?

[DavidIven]

I don't really understand this mentality when it comes to a game. When everyone's paying the same amount no one should be locked out of or denied content for not being good at it; there should just be "better" rewards for those who are good at it.

I do think casual players simply not being allowed to clear certain content is dumb. Not that I feel it's a huge deal, as there is plenty of casual content; but you people preaching about "participation trophies," need to stop getting so much of your sense of self-worth from a video game.

you pay to access the game, it doesnt mean you unlock all contents the game gives you.
imagine demanding to get all bosses's rewards in dark souls just because you're incompetent to beat them.

[Goji1639]

Tell me what games allow you to fail at something then continue to the next part of the game?

Tell me what games require near mechanical perfection before allowing you to continue. Now tell me which games have easy modes to allow casual players to progress.

Needing to lock casual players out of content just so you can feel special is just insecurity. I personally don't see anything wrong with just giving better players better rewards.

you pay to access the game, it doesnt mean you unlock all contents the game gives you.
imagine demanding to get all bosses's rewards in dark souls just because you're incompetent to beat them.

In Dark Souls you can summon players to beat the boss for you, or just outlevel bosses to the point where their mechanics don't matter.

[Nora_of_Mira]

In Dark Souls you can summon players to beat the boss for you, or just outlevel bosses to the point where their mechanics don't matter.

and in FFxiv, you can buy your savage clears.

[Aramina]

Tell me what games require near mechanical perfection before allowing you to continue. Now tell me which games have easy modes to allow casual players to progress.

Needing to lock casual players out of content just so you can feel special is just insecurity. I personally don't see anything wrong with just giving better players better rewards.


In Dark Souls you can summon players to beat the boss for you, or just outlevel bosses to the point where their mechanics don't matter.

This was a joke right? This game in no way requires mechanical perfection and anything outside savage (and MAYBE Ex trials) is easy mode to allow casuals to progress. I am not locking anyone out of anything. I am casual myself. I have never touched Savage or an EX trial that was synced. The rest of the game is for us.... stop wanting someone else's slice of cake and just eat yours.

[Bigmoose85]

Practice on the stone, sky, sea training dummies more.

[HumanNinjaToo]

Tell me what games require near mechanical perfection before allowing you to continue.

Dark Souls comes to mind... You can't summon in other players if you don't play online. Over leveling doesn't work on all the bosses.

Now tell me which games have easy modes to allow casual players to progress.

Almost every new game these days has some iteration of story mode, normal mode, and hard mode.

However, while I don't agree with participation rewards, I do agree that locking people out of content based on their skill is not cool. But again, I don't think you should get a reward for barely scraping by. Rewards should be given when you've done something well, when you've accomplished an exceptional feat.

[Goji1639]

and in FFxiv, you can buy your savage clears.

No idea how realistic this actually is, but if it's an accessible option for casual player then fair enough.

This was a joke right? This game in no way requires mechanical perfection and anything outside savage (and MAYBE Ex trials) is easy mode to allow casuals to progress. I am not locking anyone out of anything. I am casual myself. I have never touched Savage or an EX trial that was synced. The rest of the game is for us.... stop wanting someone else's slice of cake and just eat yours.

So, what exactly is being taken away from hardcores if casual players are still able to clear the content if they don't beat the enrage timer? If you get better rewards for actually beating the timer then what's the problem? Is it that they still feel special but not quite special enough, so the only way is to lock other people out?

Sorry, but the reasons you all have as to why casual players shouldn't be allowed to clear this content are just petty.

[Hezzlocks]

Siri, what are tankbusters in general?
How about Aggro resets?
Almagest?
White Hole?
Charybdis?
Photon especially when combined with Eternal Darkness?
Missile?
Allagan Field?
Shinryu's dragon heads?
Akh Morn?
Death Sentence + Plummet?
Heartless Angel/Heartless Archangel?
Practically every single Prey mechanic?

How many more examples do you want?

None of those are soft enrages. They're basic mechanics you deal with in the fight, and for the most part someone dieing to them is not a raid wipe, at least not an assured wipe. You seem to be confusing this with mechanical understanding. A soft enrage is something that builds up in intensity to the point where it becomes overwhelming, requiring the tanks and healers, and even the DPS if they had defensive cooldowns in FF14, to give it their everything to last as long as possible until either the phase ends, the boss dies, or the raid wipes. Susano's sword is one of the closest things to this for a tank, yet even that is still, in the end, just another DPS check.

Really, there are generally only two things that wipes groups. Either people not dodging things and being killed off, or the DPS check failing. Because of this, healers only ever heal as much as they need to, and tanks always gear for maximum DPS. If there were more fights that had more unpredictable unavoidable damage, or much higher constant damage, while also having an ever so slightly looser hard enrage time, then this wouldn't be the case.

You can often separate fights into a few different categories. DPS check, where the enrage timer is extremely tight and/or there are things that must die *immediately*, endurance fights, where incoming damage is usually wild and random and trying to survive is more important than dealing damage, and mechanical understanding, where the fight is more about performing mechanics correctly than anything else, but may be combined with a moderate version of dps or endurance fights. FF14 has plenty of the DPS checks, nearly every fight is tight enough that DPS needs to be on point to clear. There are some mechanical understanding fights. There's not many endurance fights.

[Goji1639]

Dark Souls comes to mind... You can't summon in other players if you don't play online. Over leveling doesn't work on all the bosses.



Almost every new game these days has some iteration of story mode, normal mode, and hard mode.

However, while I don't agree with participation rewards, I do agree that locking people out of content based on their skill is not cool. But again, I don't think you should get a reward for barely scraping by. Rewards should be given when you've done something well, when you've accomplished an exceptional feat.

Yes, if you play offline there are a handful of bosses that might be difficult even if you seriously over-level. Even then the games have some very effective cheese builds.

Also, while I do think reward quality should be based on performance, I think the existence of "you won't be good enough; don't even bother" content for casual players is a little much, for a game they're paying the same amount as everyone else is for. Especially when the only reason to freeze them out is just to protect the ego's of some insecure children who invest way too much of their self-worth into this kind of thing.